SA urgently needs reforms amid rising risks, says IMF

[ɹǝuuᴉM]

You can't possibly be serious. Not even VF+ have that in mind when they call for scrapping of EE laws.

Which exactly are the "EE" laws?

 

[ɹǝuuᴉM]

He said in another thread that Eskom should be exempt from all labour laws. That would be great for them to be seen as an employer of choice and to attract talent.

But then we know he's a lunatic.

Of course he is a lunatic. You lot are the perfect ones. South Africa is doing great under your rule. Is just the whites talking and posting rubbish.

 

[vigras rojara]

Of course he is a lunatic. You lot are the perfect ones. South Africa is doing great under your rule. Is just the whites talking and posting rubbish.

Well I don't rule SA and I'm white, but carry on....

 

[ɹǝuuᴉM]

Government has an ethical responsibility to promote human rights and to protect the vulnerable from exploitation.

And how is that turning out in the new South Africa?

 

[TheChamp]

And how is that turning out in the new South Africa?

Same way it turned out in the old South Africa, people are able to go home, sort out their stuff and come back to work, it's wonderful.

 

[ɹǝuuᴉM]

Well I don't rule SA and I'm white, but carry on....

Of course...

 

[Jopie Fourie]

All of that will be racist!

Best of all, in reality, it is not racist.

It is just simply doing the right thing in saving the economy, saving the private sector, saving the government, attracting foreign investments, growing job opportunities, providing a better life for the poor, middle and upper class. But then again, doing the right thing is not acceptable to most African countries, South Africa being one of them.

 

[Lupus]

Why do I get the feeling the ANC would see Reform and think hey we need to get rid of all non-blacks in companies, that's reform right?

 

[TheChamp]

Best of all, in reality, it is not racist.

It is just simply doing the right thing in saving the economy, saving the private sector, saving the government, attracting foreign investments, growing job opportunities, providing a better life for the poor, middle and upper class. But then again, doing the right thing is not acceptable to most African countries, South Africa being one of them.

No Lew, that's not how we do things here, we are not going to save the economy like that, move to Panama already with your apartheid ideas and let us get on with things.

 

[lumeer]

Who decided this, Mr Marx?

I'm sure the millions of unemployed people in South Africa are happy that they are not exploited.

If an unemployed wants to work without leave, is it ethical from the government to deny him that opportunity?

Unless you are self-employed, you, too, benefit from our labour laws. For example, your boss cannot simply fire you because (s)he doesn't like you. If you become ill or injured, you are entitled to paid sick leave. Etc.

 

[lumeer]

that's a problem as well, if you are so lowly skilled and your kind is so plentiful that employers can do whatever the hell they like ... then you need to gain skills to get into a role where you cannot be exploited

laws that force people to give completely unskilled workers the same benefits as highly skilled workers only serve to hide the root cause of the problem: too many unskilled workers

the answer would again be to get rid of government interference, so that the exploited get off their asses and get skilled up

There will always be a large proportion of the population whose skills are available in abundant supply and are therefore easily replaceable hence vulnerable. For example, if everyone had a degree, then having a degree wouldn't count for much anymore. So you need laws to protect such people.

 

[TheChamp]

Unless you are self-employed, you, too, benefit from our labour laws. For example, your boss cannot simply fire you because (s)he doesn't like you. If you become ill or injured, you are entitled to paid sick leave. Etc.

I think what he is saying is that he does not like it, he prefers the alternative, where the Boss is the Boss and no government should tell them what to do.

 

[lumeer]

Who decided this, Mr Marx?

I'm sure the millions of unemployed people in South Africa are happy that they are not exploited.

If an unemployed wants to work without leave, is it ethical from the government to deny him that opportunity?

The fact that there are vulnerable workers who submit to exploitation out of desperation, does not make it acceptable.

 

[BBSA]

Unless you are self-employed, you, too, benefit from our labour laws. For example, your boss cannot simply fire you because (s)he doesn't like you. If you become ill or injured, you are entitled to paid sick leave. Etc.

True, but this does not help the millions who is unemployed.

 

[daveza]

"A more decisive approach to reform is urgently needed,"

Don't hold your breath, here we do applying our minds and that takes a looooong time.

 

[BBSA]

The fact that there are vulnerable workers who submit to exploitation out of desperation, does not make it acceptable.

If the government did not interfere they had a choice. They can work for a crappy boss or be unemployed. Now they don't have a choice.

Remember he has alway a choice to improve his skills and work for himself.

 

[TheChamp]

True, but this does not help the millions who is unemployed.

Where are you going to draw the line in your quest to help the unemployed, allow the boss to deny them leave and what else? Are the workers allowed to be sick?

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

There will always be a large proportion of the population whose skills are available in abundant supply and are therefore easily replaceable hence vulnerable. For example, if everyone had a degree, then having a degree wouldn't count for much anymore

if everyone had a useless degree, they will learn to study degrees that are not useless, if literally everyone on the planet had an engineering degree (so not-useless) for example, the industry would move at such a rapid rate that new skills will soon be needed and people can reskill in those skills

NOBODY should be protected from their own inability to adapt

So you need laws to protect such people.

the only law you need for those are the laws of nature / survival of the fittest

 

[Mystic Twilight]

that's a problem as well, if you are so lowly skilled and your kind is so plentiful that employers can do whatever the hell they like ... then you need to gain skills to get into a role where you cannot be exploited

laws that force people to give completely unskilled workers the same benefits as highly skilled workers only serve to hide the root cause of the problem: too many unskilled workers

the answer would again be to get rid of government interference, so that the exploited get off their asses and get skilled up

That depends on your perspective on utilitarian vs deontology, as per the following picture:

I also would not be so hasty to promote justice, as that also bring into question the Merchant of Venice pound of flesh dilemma.

 

[diapason]

Government has an ethical responsibility

Since when does our Govt know anything about ethics or responsibility?