SAA: Running on empty

[Mila]

Cash cow cash cow. How long can we shove a pineapple in your ***yhole?


It's the ANC, And the EFF is going to do an even better job and milking the taxpayer for private gain.

Trying to solve the ANC problem by voting EFF is like taking Brooklax to stop diarrhoea.

 

[Jola]

The only way out for SAA would be privatization. This ensures government can't appoint a mamparra and his board with another 'turn around strategy' which is actually just code for 'its my turn to steal now'.

SAA can't be privatised, it is bankrupt.

Shut it down.

 

[grok]

Then who's fault is that? BEE is a good idea to try and address the balance the imbalance of you guessed it Apartheid. The little monster we are hiding in the wardrobe and desperately trying to pretend it doesn't exist. Yet any idea can be corrupted and destroyed no matter how great it is. Stop pulling the BEE card and telling us about how black people are not qualified. They are. The problem is corruption, no matter how you want to spin it.
When you sit and blame BEE for everything then the ANC will sit and say white supremacy while they carry on plundering our resources. You cannot expect us to forget Apartheid we won't and I am part of the born free generation. Understand that I am intelligent enough ton know what is right and wrong. Racism and corruption is wrong. Face up to these things and address them don't point fingers.

Were not hiding anything in the wardrobe, it's just that what happened 50, 100 years ago wasn't our decision and is out of our control.

Now before you say we're still responsible that's load of k@k, but even so, my generation put a stop to what our grandparents did, we voted for the unbanning of the ANC and a negotiated settlement, which led to a peaceful transition to our current democracy. When are blacks going to start honoring their agreements like we did?

What is in our control is not voting for the same leaders who steal and destroy what we've been left with, one of the top countries in Africa. Unfortunately for you it is blacks in control now, so blacks will be blamed when they screw up. And screwing up they're doing big time, all under the blanket of apartheid excuses.

Stop making excuses for your leaders, stop agreeing with them when they're using what was done in the past to ruin the future for us all. If you're so intelligent you'll know how the same path worked out for Zimbabwe, Mugabe is still blaming the west while running the country into the ground and making beggars of his people.

Thing is no great idea can work if it's not implemented correctly, you want democracy you have to stick to democratic principles, you want non-racism you have to stop dividing by race, you want prosperity you have to force your leaders to do the right thing, grow the economy, put those clever blacks into the right positions, etc. BEE is not working cos it's not implemented correctly, you know it and that's why we're moaning about it, but as a white what can I do?

So it's all kinda up to you whether you want your democracy to work or not. You have to start voting for clever people, and people who don't look to the past but the future, who don't use race as an excuse, who's not racist and who don't steal. Cos you hate that.

Are you up for the challenge?

 

[TheMightyQuin]

There are many very smart and competent black people that can run the SAA and the SABC. But they wouldn't tarnish their good names by getting involved and Zuma wouldn't want them to either.

Both SAA and SABC are tools the government wield for their own gain.

SABC for purely propaganda purposes. The SAA is a bit more complex, but basically this is what has happened and is happening there: Zuma wants to keep all his comrades that run all the other African countries happy. In a nutshell he then orders SAA to fly routes to cities in Africa that no-one wants to or can afford to fly to. These routes and flights lose millions and millions. SAA goes bankrupt and Zuma tops up with tax money.

This is why he has to have his cronies run these places.

 

[grok]

There are many very smart and competent black people that can run the SAA and the SABC. But they wouldn't tarnish their good names by getting involved and Zuma wouldn't want them to either.

Both SAA and SABC are tools the government wield for their own gain.

SABC for purely propaganda purposes. The SAA is a bit more complex, but basically this is what has happened and is happening there: Zuma wants to keep all his comrades that run all the other African countries happy. In a nutshell he then orders SAA to fly routes to cities in Africa that no-one wants to or can afford to fly to. These routes and flights lose millions and millions. SAA goes bankrupt and Zuma tops up with tax money.

This is why he has to have his cronies run these places.

Uhm, sorry to burst your bubble but it's way more than unprofitable flights for pals..

Those cadres have been put into place with only one thing in mind, stealing. If they can't do it directly, they do it through dodgy procurement practices and tenders, if that isn't an option they run it bankrupt in the hope of a government bailout & it that fails they try & get someone like the Guptas to borrow money from the PIC to buy the company through a rescue scheme and continue to plunder further.

The Zuma crowd has zero interest in the growth, sustainability, success or future of the country. They are simply cannibiailising and grabbing as much as they can until there's nothing left.

 

[KillerX]

Then who's fault is that? BEE is a good idea to try and address the balance the imbalance of you guessed it Apartheid. The little monster we are hiding in the wardrobe and desperately trying to pretend it doesn't exist. Yet any idea can be corrupted and destroyed no matter how great it is....

If blacks are qualified for a position they will get it. There is no mass conspiracy to exclude the blacks from positions of influence. Apartheid ended 22 years ago. The new generation of whites voted overwhelmingly to bring an end to this brutal and despicable system.

BEE is one of those examples of a policy that looks great on paper, but turns out disastrously in practice. You try and separate BEE and corruption, but in South Africa they go hand in hand. They have since day one. When you promote based on anything else than merit and qualifications, you inevitably bring politics and emotion and greed into play. Every parastatal, municipality and province where BEE has been forced through above all else has been shown to be at best mediocre and at worst catastrophic.

To address the injustices of the past: Provide opportunities for education and skills development. Provide access to easy capital. Provide mentorship and guidance. And do this with a heavy emphasis towards those who were excluded for so long.

The market will then eventually right itself. But to go and force in quotas and put idiots in positions merely to check some box is a recipe for disaster, and the very reason why South Africa is currently circling the drain with 0% growth and months away from a junk status. This BEE and AA nonsense , along with many other poor policy decisions is slowly killing us.

You forget we are not operating alone on an island. We need to be globally competitive against other countries. And they do not give a crap about our 'BEE Scorecard'.

 

[Jola]

If blacks are qualified for a position they will get it. There is no mass conspiracy to exclude the blacks from positions of influence. Apartheid ended 22 years ago. The new generation of whites voted overwhelmingly to bring an end to this brutal and despicable system.

BEE is one of those examples of a policy that looks great on paper, but turns out disastrously in practice. You try and separate BEE and corruption, but in South Africa they go hand in hand. They have since day one. When you promote based on anything else than merit and qualifications, you inevitably bring politics and emotion and greed into play. Every parastatal, municipality and province where BEE has been forced through above all else has been shown to be at best mediocre and at worst catastrophic.

To address the injustices of the past: Provide opportunities for education and skills development. Provide access to easy capital. Provide mentorship and guidance. And do this with a heavy emphasis towards those who were excluded for so long.

The market will then eventually right itself. But to go and force in quotas and put idiots in positions merely to check some box is a recipe for disaster, and the very reason why South Africa is currently circling the drain with 0% growth and months away from a junk status. This BEE and AA nonsense , along with many other poor policy decisions is slowly killing us.

You forget we are not operating alone on an island. We need to be globally competitive against other countries. And they do not give a crap about our 'BEE Scorecard'.

That ^

 

[TheMightyQuin]

Uhm, sorry to burst your bubble but it's way more than unprofitable flights for pals..

Those cadres have been put into place with only one thing in mind, stealing. If they can't do it directly, they do it through dodgy procurement practices and tenders, if that isn't an option they run it bankrupt in the hope of a government bailout & it that fails they try & get someone like the Guptas to borrow money from the PIC to buy the company through a rescue scheme and continue to plunder further.

The Zuma crowd has zero interest in the growth, sustainability, success or future of the country. They are simply cannibiailising and grabbing as much as they can until there's nothing left.

I did say "in a nutshell"....I also read the papers daily and I know there are other dodgy stuff going on. Especially re. this BS "Loan Procurement" deal where some unknown company was going to get paid R 256 mil to find SAA funding from investors. Luckily that has been nipped in the bud.

 

[Jola]

I did say "in a nutshell"....I also read the papers daily and I know there are other dodgy stuff going on. Especially re. this BS "Loan Procurement" deal where some unknown company was going to get paid R 256 mil to find SAA funding from investors. Luckily that has been nipped in the bud.

Yes, but the perpetrators are stilll there.

And, AFAIK, the whistleblower is still suspended.

 

[Wag]

You sound racist and distracting this conversation from the actual problem. The problem is corruption nothing to do with race, need I remind you of Aparthied or are we pretending that never happened or maybe slavery in America or wait that never happened, the slaughtering of the Aborigines in Australia or that never happened, the killing and displacement of the Native American's or no that never too let not me not even mention what happened in South America. So please refrain from pointing out skin colour when the issue is corruption do not pull an ANC and tell us about the scars of aparthied every time they are caught with their hand in the cookie jar.

Always the race card when intelligence and plain common sense fails.

 

[Jola]

Racism and corruption is wrong. Face up to these things and address them don't point fingers.

The ANC is not facing up to either, and just is encouraging racism through its stupid statements.

 

[R13...]

Always the race card when intelligence and plain common sense fails.

What started this sounded racist. I thought the person was being sarcastic but him defending it does look like he intended to imply that incompetence = black, which is racist.

 

[Neoprod]

If blacks are qualified for a position they will get it. There is no mass conspiracy to exclude the blacks from positions of influence. Apartheid ended 22 years ago. The new generation of whites voted overwhelmingly to bring an end to this brutal and despicable system.

You're arguing against the wrong enemy...this is not a race issue at its core. There is a strong anti-intellectualism streak prevalent in the ANC today that has a similar effect on the so-called "clever blacks" as AA-BEE affects white people. Jacob's elevation to the presidency has led to the **** rising to the top along with him...he employs sycophants, toadies, bootlickers, gatkruipers (does that word mean what I think it does - brown-nosers?) etc. regardless of their ability to perform the job required. Guess what those toadies then do? Employ people just like them and so the poop-spiral widens.

 

[porchrat]

What started this sounded racist. I thought the person was being sarcastic but him defending it does look like he intended to imply that incompetence = black, which is racist.

Agreed. Seemed pretty darn racist to me.

 

[Kazuya]

Were not hiding anything in the wardrobe, it's just that what happened 50, 100 years ago wasn't our decision and is out of our control.

Now before you say we're still responsible that's load of k@k, but even so, my generation put a stop to what our grandparents did, we voted for the unbanning of the ANC and a negotiated settlement, which led to a peaceful transition to our current democracy. When are blacks going to start honoring their agreements like we did?

What is in our control is not voting for the same leaders who steal and destroy what we've been left with, one of the top countries in Africa. Unfortunately for you it is blacks in control now, so blacks will be blamed when they screw up. And screwing up they're doing big time, all under the blanket of apartheid excuses.

Stop making excuses for your leaders, stop agreeing with them when they're using what was done in the past to ruin the future for us all. If you're so intelligent you'll know how the same path worked out for Zimbabwe, Mugabe is still blaming the west while running the country into the ground and making beggars of his people.

Thing is no great idea can work if it's not implemented correctly, you want democracy you have to stick to democratic principles, you want non-racism you have to stop dividing by race, you want prosperity you have to force your leaders to do the right thing, grow the economy, put those clever blacks into the right positions, etc. BEE is not working cos it's not implemented correctly, you know it and that's why we're moaning about it, but as a white what can I do?

So it's all kinda up to you whether you want your democracy to work or not. You have to start voting for clever people, and people who don't look to the past but the future, who don't use race as an excuse, who's not racist and who don't steal. Cos you hate that.

Are you up for the challenge?

I am not and did not at any point make an excuse for the leaders, I pointed out a statement that said black people are not capable of running the institutions such as SAA as racists, I then pointed out what the actual problem was and it is corruption. You are the one who defended a statement that implied black people are not able to run institutions like SAA as not racist

Two problems , first is they have to be black , second is there are none capable.

How is that not racist? Few black people are messing up and it's attributed to the whole race. Penny Sparrow called black people monkey can I then say all white people are racist based on the failings of a few people? The problem is corruption don't deviate from that, don't mention skin colour.
Yes Aparthied happened before my time and perhaps yours too how ever it clearly left black people at a disadvantage. That is the inheritance of our generation. BEE was meant to try and address that but it has been corrupted.

Now you mention Zimbabwe. I don't know much about their struggle but I did read an article from Thabo Mbeki. Please read it if you haven't already. I will not speak for them. Like I said I don't know their struggle but there is plenty of blame to go around for that situation.
http://www.sahistory.org.za/archive...imbabwe-synopsis-thabo-mbeki-22-february-2016.

 

[Jola]

The problem with SAA is not racism, it is nepotism and cronyism.

Appointing incompetent and unqualified people, with no relevant experience, is what the problem is.

Add greed to the mix and it all falls down.

 

[R13...]

The problem with SAA is not racism, it is nepotism and cronyism.

Appointing incompetent and unqualified people, with no relevant experience, is what the problem is.

Add greed to the mix and it all falls down.

It is a general problem with almost all SOEs. People are appointed for their connections and sycophantic leanings because those doing the appointing want lapdogs who will do as they're told when it comes to procurement or other related matters.

 

[Kazuya]

If blacks are qualified for a position they will get it. There is no mass conspiracy to exclude the blacks from positions of influence. Apartheid ended 22 years ago. The new generation of whites voted overwhelmingly to bring an end to this brutal and despicable system.

BEE is one of those examples of a policy that looks great on paper, but turns out disastrously in practice. You try and separate BEE and corruption, but in South Africa they go hand in hand. They have since day one. When you promote based on anything else than merit and qualifications, you inevitably bring politics and emotion and greed into play. Every parastatal, municipality and province where BEE has been forced through above all else has been shown to be at best mediocre and at worst catastrophic.

To address the injustices of the past: Provide opportunities for education and skills development. Provide access to easy capital. Provide mentorship and guidance. And do this with a heavy emphasis towards those who were excluded for so long.

The market will then eventually right itself. But to go and force in quotas and put idiots in positions merely to check some box is a recipe for disaster, and the very reason why South Africa is currently circling the drain with 0% growth and months away from a junk status. This BEE and AA nonsense , along with many other poor policy decisions is slowly killing us.

You forget we are not operating alone on an island. We need to be globally competitive against other countries. And they do not give a crap about our 'BEE Scorecard'.

Yes it ended 22 years ago but after how many years in service?
It left black people at a disadvantage and whites at an advantage.
Promote based on merit wow considering that we never had equal opportunities in education how were we meant to have the same qualifications? Black people had to leave the country to get the same education as whites, not many had that chance so again that leaves us at a disadvantage. So your idea good on paper not as a policy.
There is no full proof way to correct the past with out leaving some people unhappy but once we call corruption corruption and not say it's because they are black we will be off to a good start. Even when the National Party was in power there were people who stole state resources. That was theft/corruption not because they were white.

 

[grok]

I am not and did not at any point make an excuse for the leaders, I pointed out a statement that said black people are not capable of running the institutions such as SAA as racists, I then pointed out what the actual problem was and it is corruption. You are the one who defended a statement that implied black people are not able to run institutions like SAA as not racist



How is that not racist? Few black people are messing up and it's attributed to the whole race. Penny Sparrow called black people monkey can I then say all white people are racist based on the failings of a few people? The problem is corruption don't deviate from that, don't mention skin colour.
Yes Aparthied happened before my time and perhaps yours too how ever it clearly left black people at a disadvantage. That is the inheritance of our generation. BEE was meant to try and address that but it has been corrupted.

Now you mention Zimbabwe. I don't know much about their struggle but I did read an article from Thabo Mbeki. Please read it if you haven't already. I will not speak for them. Like I said I don't know their struggle but there is plenty of blame to go around for that situation.
http://www.sahistory.org.za/archive...imbabwe-synopsis-thabo-mbeki-22-february-2016.

You are confusing me with someone else, show me where I defended that quote or retract your accusation.

 

[Kazuya]

You are confusing me with someone else, show me where I defended that quote or retract your accusation.

Sorry My apologies.Wrong person. What I am trying to get across is that while we keep bringing everything wrong with our country down to race we will never go anywhere. Its time we called a spade a spade. Our country is gripped by corruption at the highest level and unfortunately the mass cannot see that. I find it sad that there are service delivery strikes every year. Those places are run by the ANC and time after time those people vote ANC with out fail to then repeat the same cycle of strikes over service delivery. I say never mention race in these cases as people like it or not are still fearful of Aparthied Call them out for what they are thieves and corrupt individual who are ensuring that their voters never improve their lives. Their continued suffering benefits them in a sense. When you do this they will naturally say you are racist to which you will confidently point out Quote me on that point where I am racist. For there to be change in our country and government there has to be change in our mentality and unfortunately if we keep bringing everything down to race then we will go nowhere.