Sad reality

VernD said:
Broken telephone ? Your end of the line yes. Read the whole thread rather than trying to patronise me by quoting me out of context.
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I have. You're using one company to represent the entire workforce. What would you say if I took a group of hijackers and used them as proof that everyone in Soweto is a criminal?

Also, your 'proof' is subjective.
 
marine1 said:
Well if he is a BEE case then maybe he needs to come to terms with it, no ? Problem is that when one is told he is doing a bad job, then that person will say its because he or she is black or maybe its appartheids fault once again ?
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Once again, out of context. The case is not about being a BEE candidate and who said anything about being critisized.
 
All I am saying is that when i hear someone say that he heard a story from his uncle's cousin's mother's father's twice removed sister, I question the final version. I dont mean to patronise you but It seems that every story, unless quoted directly, is full of holes. Just because someone says thats what happened must we believe it? If it was that serious, it would be in the newspapers.
 
Leitmotif said:
I have. You're using one company to represent the entire workforce. What would you say if I took a group of hijackers and used them as proof that everyone in Soweto is a criminal?
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I think it was more of an example of the fact that it exists in our workplaces than a representation. When it hits someone you know and you are quite sure it was a racially motivated incident, it is never comfortable. I get some nasty comments here and there when people know I'm an Israeli citizen or Jewish. It's not nice and difficult for some people to deal with.
 
icyrus said:
If someone says that a person is useless at their job (or some other criticism) and it is not true then there is another reason whether it be racism or personal dislike. This is not rocket science.
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Ahh getting to the core now!!!!Some kinds of racism are subtle, but are no less hurtful. The issue is that a lot of racists choose to very sublime ways of making racial statements, particularly, if you are on a similar or above them in the work place.

That being said, it does not mean that black people should not be criticised, however, some criticism tends to have a slant that goes above the issue at hand and tends to suggest that you were liable to do whatever you are criticised for because of your race.

When you question that particular slant, your are termed to have a chip over your shoulder (I have been accussed of that in this particular forum) or being "over-sensitive".

Icyrus, you might be an honest man in your life, but you do not need to be in denial about racist tendencies in other white people.
 
marine1 said:
Well if he is a BEE case then maybe he needs to come to terms with it, no ? Problem is that when one is told he is doing a bad job, then that person will say its because he or she is black or maybe its appartheids fault once again ?
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This is a wrong generalization. Be specific and not use the words "when one is told, that person".... If I misunderstood you, then I'm sorry.
 
Leitmotif said:
I have. You're using one company to represent the entire workforce. What would you say if I took a group of hijackers and used them as proof that everyone in Soweto is a criminal?

Also, your 'proof' is subjective.
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I used one company as an EXAMPLE, not PROOF. Also, your example is illogical - take it from someone who studied 3rd year Logic :mad:
 
dlk001 said:
This is a wrong generalization. Be specific and not use the words "when one is told, that person".... If I misunderstood you, then I'm sorry.
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No no I am referring to the specific case. I have encountered it many times. You tell a black person they are not doing the job correctly and they cry racism.
 
marine1 said:
No no I am referring to the specific case. I have encountered it many times. You tell a black person they are not doing the job correctly and they cry racism.
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Another unbiased stance. I am seeing a pattern here!!!!!!!!!from your posts I can certainly descern that you are leaning towards Terreblanche and company, and you are surprised that those who work with you have figured that already?
 
marine1 said:
No no I am referring to the specific case. I have encountered it many times. You tell a black person they are not doing the job correctly and they cry racism.
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Whoever these black ppl are that is crying racism every time their performance is critisized, are just plain stupid - oops :o was that me being racist ?

At the one company I worked at, I had a white female boss who didn't like me and not because of my race, but because I dared to critisize her (Btw, I critisized her because of her lack of knowledge of the highly technical function that we were performing) Not for one moment did I play the race card in my dealings with her because I was intelligent enough to know where her animosity stemmed from.
 
Rooinek said:
Ahh getting to the core now!!!!Some kinds of racism are subtle, but are no less hurtful. The issue is that a lot of racists choose to very sublime ways of making racial statements, particularly, if you are on a similar or above them in the work place.

That being said, it does not mean that black people should not be criticised, however, some criticism tends to have a slant that goes above the issue at hand and tends to suggest that you were liable to do whatever you are criticised for because of your race.

When you question that particular slant, your are termed to have a chip over your shoulder (I have been accussed of that in this particular forum) or being "over-sensitive".

Icyrus, you might be an honest man in your life, but you do not need to be in denial about racist tendencies in other white people.
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I never said there aren't people of all colours who are racist. My point is that we need to hold people - especially government - accountable for their actions and I despise it when they hide behind race so as not to take any blame.

Without accountability in government our country is doomed.
 
VernD said:
I used one company as an EXAMPLE, not PROOF. Also, your example is illogical - take it from someone who studied 3rd year Logic :mad:
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VernD said:
Racism is still rife in the workplace, and if we dare mention it, then we're playing the race card.

The reality is however, that we do still have to deal with racism in the workplace, irrespective of the positions that we hold - sometimes the racism comes from sub-ordinates ( these ppl will risk their jobs to let you know what they think of you ). Another point, and maybe even an admirable point, they will show you and tell you exactly what they think of you, in your face.
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Very general attack. Yes, it is an attack, an accusation of blanket racism from 'you' against a perceived 'us'. Then you justify this attack with a flawed and subjective 'example', and argue on a technicality of language. You also can't see a correlation between your example of a specific subsection of a group used to represent the whole and mine? And you studied Logic? I'd grade that F.
 
Leitmotif said:
Very general attack. Yes, it is an attack, an accusation of blanket racism from 'you' against a perceived 'us'. Then you justify this attack with a flawed and subjective 'example', and argue on a technicality of language. You also can't see a correlation between your example of a specific subsection of a group used to represent the whole and mine? And you studied Logic? I'd grade that F.
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Ooooh, using BIG words; English was, unfortunately, not my forte - I only managed a B for it. As for the logic, you're obviously not qualified to grade mine - my lecturer at least gave me a C for it :D . I'm insulted by your F :(
 
Now that we've got that nice fuzzy ad hominem out of the way... how about actually addressing the points I made instead of trying to construe that your marks are proof of your correctness? ;)

Read your signature. Real life is the education.
 
Leitmotif said:
Now that we've got that nice fuzzy ad hominem out of the way... how about actually addressing the points I made instead of trying to construe that your marks are proof of your correctness? ;)

Read your signature. Real life is the education.
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The points you made ? What was that again ? :p
 
a) Names are nothing new in businesses, especially for new employees.
b) Your original post used one anecdotal incident to make a blanket accusation of racism in the workplace.
c) My example of hijackers is just as valid as yours.

Try and keep track, I don't want to have to do your job for you. :D
 
Rooinek said:
Another unbiased stance. I am seeing a pattern here!!!!!!!!!from your posts I can certainly descern that you are leaning towards Terreblanche and company, and you are surprised that those who work with you have figured that already?
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Umm ok whatever that means. Terreblanche? What the hell are you on about? Are you going to call me an idiot like you do to anyone else here who disagrees with you?
 
dlk001 said:
So, what can be drawn out of your experience?
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Dont want to elaborate too much but was involved in a certain GVT agency and some of the people that worked there (black) behaved like kids. We were there to do a specific job and when they were told what they were doing was wrong, it almost always turned into a race issue.

I am generalising and it was not all the people just a large percentage.
 
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