Sangomas To Counsel Students

They r welcome to have Sangoma's... again its a matter of belief...
HOWEVER!!
The Sangoma's they choose to work at an institute such as UKZN must be 'legal'...
ie... not tell a person to have sex with a virgin to cure aids
ie... not to tell a person that success will some by eating a boys testacle
ie... not make your house out of a persons bones so u r successful at uni (refer to link 1)
ie... rape your daughter to cure bad luck (refer to link 2)

Here is a perfect example:
1) http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2174263,00.html
2) http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_2166524,00.html

Actually... just search sangoma on news24... u will be shocked!!!
 
There we go!!! :D

Thank you, theStudent - you expressed how I feel much better than what I could... I seem to put my foot in it all too easily...
 
Agreed, I just wouldn't paint all traditional healers with the same brush.
 
Lycanthrope said:
And adding conviction to a person's belief that the sky is green assists in healing the "right mindset?"

Look, don't get me wrong - I'm all for cultural differences, but I just find it a bit intimidating when people start catering to certain people's psychosis instead of providing affordable Western means of alleviating psychological disorders based around the belief that you're possessed by your father's uncle's great grandfather.

Oh, and somehow anti-depressants seem so much more stomachable in comparison to whatever organs and crap go into 'mooti' - assuming we're talking about traditional African sangomas.
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Oh, so "traditional" psychosis is less legitimate?

Look, if I had a spiritual crisis, I'd see a spiritual counsellor (a priest or whatever). If I had a psychological crisis, I'd see a psychologist - doesn't it make sense that if you had a problem rooted in your traditional beliefs that you'd go and see a counsellor with experience it dealing with that?
 
I think Lycanthrope hasnt got a worry about that... coz think he thinking on the same level as me.... (correct me if im wrong)

The worry is non-legitimate Sangoma's r involved....

I know nothing about Sangoma's to be honest, but sure u get some good apples and bad apples... (just like priests)

So hopefully the selection process will make sure that the Sangoma's r legit... and that ppl's willies wont get cut off while making pee pee at the university loo! :rolleyes:

There is no problem having tradtional healers of ur faith... as long as the abide by the rules of this country!
 
chiskop said:
Oh, so "traditional" psychosis is less legitimate?

Look, if I had a spiritual crisis, I'd see a spiritual counsellor (a priest or whatever). If I had a psychological crisis, I'd see a psychologist - doesn't it make sense that if you had a problem rooted in your traditional beliefs that you'd go and see a counsellor with experience it dealing with that?
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I apologise, as I said - my ability to coherently communicate what I wanted, is rather lacking at the moment.

If you're Christian and you go to a Priest due to a "spiritual crisis" then great, good for you. However, if you go to a "Priest" or "Sangoma" or whatever and they command you to cut the eyelids out of a 4-year-old child or rape your daughter (as in theStudent's links) then I'm afraid there's a slight problem.

As theStudent said - no problem if they're "legal" and there's no harm involved...

I apologise again for upsetting yourself and Fudzy and whomever else, chiskop. Sorry.

Edit: What theStudent said :D Thanks again :p
 
chiskop said:
Oh, so "traditional" psychosis is less legitimate?

Look, if I had a spiritual crisis, I'd see a spiritual counsellor (a priest or whatever). If I had a psychological crisis, I'd see a psychologist - doesn't it make sense that if you had a problem rooted in your traditional beliefs that you'd go and see a counsellor with experience it dealing with that?
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Sure - but if I had a medical crisis, I wouldn't go see a priest in the hopes that he would exorcise the demons making me sick.

The problem is where the line is drawn between spiritual issues and medical issues; different cultures see the lines drawn in different places.
 
Cathryn said:
Sure - but if I had a medical crisis, I wouldn't go see a priest in the hopes that he would exorcise the demons making me sick.

The problem is where the line is drawn between spiritual issues and medical issues; different cultures see the lines drawn in different places.
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But if u felt uncomfortable with the western culture of things... then u go to wat find conventional...
I myself wouldnt support things like that... but have nothing against it either... they say the mind is the most powerful thing.. so maybe a sangoma can 'heal' u.. or at least make u think ur healed.

Westerners like myself dont understand Zulu culture very much unfortunately.. but sangoma's do
just like i dont understand catholicism so wouldnt go to priest... but some ppl believe that g0d will cure them or save them...

its all to do with ur belief.. and that belief must be respected... BUT ONLY if it is not lead to anything illegal...
 
Lol, why would I be offended?

Anyway, all the activity that you're concerned about is illegal. It's like saying I'd be happy with the idea of psychologists, as long as they didn't take advantage of their vulnerable patients.

Cathryn, you'd go with the therapy that you trust - why can others be allowed that priviledge?
 
theStudent said:
just like i dont understand catholicism so wouldnt go to priest... but some ppl believe that g0d will cure them or save them...
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Are they going to build churches on campus for the Catholics?

Why build mud huts? Let them operate out of modern buildings.
 
lol.... cant reply to that 1...

maybe to give ukzn a tourist-ie look to it

Maybe the smell of mud will get rid of the other horrible odors that linger around campus :D
 
lsuacner said:
my 2 cents. If a student goes there instead of to a real doctor, I would question his competence as a professional.
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There are many students who are now accredited professionals who use services of traditional healers. Their professions accredits them based on their competency not based on their cultural or religious beliefs.
 
It really doesn't bother me if they choose counselling from a sangoma, as long as the advice received does not incite action against the rights of others as a method of cure. For this reason there needs to be some sort of monitoring involved in order to make sure that this doesn't happen.

As an aside, I'd be cautious about using the term 'western'. After all, science is science, regardless of where it's practised. The scientific method followed in Japan is still the same scientific method practised everywhere else. I prefer to use the term 'modern' so that it has no racial implications.
 
Here's my thoughts on this.

A student, uncomfortable with "western" councelling goes to the see the sangoma. This particular student has a learning difficulty - lets say for example the student is battling to remember what was explained in lessons even tho he or she is concentrating and taking notes - now for arguments sake the lets say this problem is (and im not an expert here but I know this kind of condition exists) the student has difficulty concentrating across the left and right ride of their centre (this exists, my kid had the same problem, which can easily be sorted out in occupational therapy).

The sangoma will not be able to properly diagnose what the student is battling with, not having the training or the scope of a councellor who will deal with students all the time, it is possible that give a diagnosis which may have emotional consequences for the student (its not for me to say if others can beleive in being bewitched or not, but imagine the emotional and psychological consequences for a student who does beleive in bewitchment - so suddenly find they are bewitched - when that is not the case).

The problem is now not only not correctly diagnosed or addressed, it has been aggrevated.

This is just an example but my concern is that the resolutions that are given by a sangoma may very well not be what is needed by a university student, or could compound the problem. Will the sangoma have an understanding of what constitues "western" problems and their solutions and will they have the understanding to escalate this to another councellor or department (seeing that they are complimenting other councelling) should they not be able to assist?
 
Dastrix.. u got a very good point..

My opinion is that a uni student should be well educated to be at uni in the 1st place (ye.. i know im fooling myself saying that)..

Just now u going to tell me that our health minister is a doctor or something :D
 
I have to wonder if all this returning to African roots with sangoma spaza shops popping up at one then numerous universities, isn't maybe a ploy to keep people from getting a recognised qualification, and therefore being able to emigrate away from SA, just imagine what a potential employer within SA would have to say about some qualification obtained at UKZN, and then imagine the reaction overseas.

PS: Just like Manto, our deer old Poison Ivy is a certified whichdoctor and provides such quality advice for potential investors that come to her for counselling in the ways of the DoC - she tells them to sod off and lo and behold they are healed of ever thinking it might be worthwhile landing a cable in SA.
 
Dastrix said:
Will the sangoma have an understanding of what constitues "western" problems and their solutions and will they have the understanding to escalate this to another councellor or department (seeing that they are complimenting other councelling) should they not be able to assist?
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There are problems that a Sangoma will not understand just as much there are problems a western councellor will not understand.

Popular Sangomas like "Magconde" in Eastern Cape often refer people to hospital when necessary.

The friend of mine who appeared to be struggling with a similar case as you have mentioned did not get anywhere with the counseling at UCT Health Center.

We went to a Sangoma in Langa, Cape Town, who referred him to a Traditional Healer in Kyalelitsha after identifying the problem. After that, he was fine and did very well in his Engineering studies.
 
ic said:
PS: Just like Manto, our deer old Poison Ivy is a certified whichdoctor and provides such quality advice for potential investors that come to her for counselling in the ways of the DoC - she tells them to sod off and lo and behold they are healed of ever thinking it might be worthwhile landing a cable in SA.
Click to expand...

Bwahaha, healed indeed.
 
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