SAPS success

[icyrus]

So just because somebody posted about an arrest it means it's "outstounding" news as you call it? Arrests are always occuring, don't you watch the news? Like xtermin8tor said, acknowledging such news wouldn't fit with your agenda.

Please be kind enough to inform me of "my agenda".

 

[xtermin8or]

I do not want to make this thread into yet another bun fight so let's play nice

The fact that our prisons are bulging at the seams tends to point to the fact that police DO make arrests, and that the courst DO convict? Or am I missing the obvious?

Some poeple would also complain about this - because it's the police and courts fault that too many people are behind bars

 

[Angelo]

nonsense. half the process is police work. Shoddy police work is precisely the reason why the "laundry murders" case was thrown out. Period. Good Police Work will equate to higher conviction rates. Good policing will also mean less bribery which would also entail more cases actually making it to court and not being thrown out due to "lack of evidence"

Then why are the prisons bulging if the police are doing "shoddy" work?

 

[kingmonty]

Then why are the prisons bulging if the police are doing "shoddy" work?

It is a well known fact that the majority of the prisoners are actually awaiting trial prisoners; i.e. they have not gone through the legal process and courts yet

 

[xtermin8or]

It is a well known fact that the majority of the prisoners are actually awaiting trial prisoners; i.e. they have not gone through the legal process and courts yet

This is unfortunately the sad reality of the situation

It does prove however that the police are arresting people

The news media typically do not cover the good news stories, In any newsroom - the saying is If it bleeds it leads

That's the reason many of the Police and Judiciary's successes are not seen - and it is also the reason for many people's warped perception on crime

 

[kingmonty]

This is unfortunately the sad reality of the situation

It does prove however that the police are arresting people

The news media typically do not cover the good news stories, In any newsroom - the saying is If it bleeds it leads

That's the reason many of the Police and Judiciary's successes are not seen - and it is also the reason for many people's warped perception on crime

I agree with everything you said except the bolded bit. The only warped sense of crime in this country is the misrepresentation thereof by the government, the crime statistics being the frontrunner of this. South Africa has the highest per capita murder rate in the world, not to mention the immense rape rate. Also, the criminals (particularly violent criminals working in syndicates) know how to jippo the system and ensure they are sprung free when arrested, so arrest rates are not a good indication to go on either. The only indicator to me that the police and judiciary is doing a good job will be the day when murders and other violent crimes are declining to a zero over as short a period as possible. Until then, I'm sorry to say that the SAPS as a whole, Judiciary as an element and the government in particular are not doing a good job re crime.

I commend the inidividuals doing their part, I really do. However, as is always the case in life, it only takes one rotten apple to spoil the strudel.

 

[icyrus]

This is unfortunately the sad reality of the situation

It does prove however that the police are arresting people

The news media typically do not cover the good news stories, In any newsroom - the saying is If it bleeds it leads

That's the reason many of the Police and Judiciary's successes are not seen - and it is also the reason for many people's warped perception on crime

Ahh you must live a nice sheltered life. Those affected by crime don't need the news to tell them its a problem.

 

[ajak]

Saps successes, more luck than brains.
Meer geluk as wysheid
About 25 percent of the police are illiterate, and about 13 percent do not have driver's licences, although both are requirements under the South African Police Service Act.

In a written reply to a parliamentary question this week, Steve Tshwete, the minister of safety and security, said that 6 863 of the police were functionally illiterate, with qualifications no higher than grade 7; 27 991 had grade 10; and 2 987 had grade 12.

He said that 11 752 police did not have driver's licences but was unable to say how many members of the police had had their licences endorsed or suspended.
SO WHO IS DOING THE THINKING?

 

[kokey]

The statement that South Africa has the highest murder rate per capita is incorrect. It may have been a leader at this, or close to a leader, 7 years ago, but this situation has changed significantly over the recent years. The issue with crime statistics are not that they're being cooked by the government or police but that there has been a change in classification when reporting them. This has affected statistics like robbery coupled with violence but things like murder doesn't get affected by this. Murder is murder, it is usually reported the same (unless it's done by military, but that's another issue which other countries have to deal with)

Since murder is such a set figure it's good to make a comparison with that. At the moment the murder rate per capita in Gauteng is actually slighly lower than that of Washington DC, New Orleans and Baltimore. (it's interesting to note that New Orleans has the death penalty and it's the worst) Washington DC also seem to beat Gauteng on robbery by a long shot. However, in Gauteng other violent crimes has been on the rise and for example Gauteng can be considered the rape capital of the world.

We can complain about the crime statistics all we like. The stats aren't too bad and South Africa is one of only 20 countries in the world that releases annual crime statistics.

Blaming the ANC government is also very short sighted. Since no crime statistics were published before 1994 by the old government. The reason why us white folk have such a bad perception of crime at the moment is not because there has been a massive increase in crime in general. It's because the crime the rest of country and the majority of the population has endured all along has now washed over to our previously whites-only neighbourhoods.

 

[kilo39]

@kokey: you're new around here - welcome to the forum:

apprise yourself of the stats - then comment on the crime levels:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=qw1154343064401B245
The president should also have announced the lifting of its unofficial moratorium on the release of crime statistics.

"It is reprehensible, given the risk that citizens currently face, that the government deliberately withholds information that they could use to limit their risk of exposure to crime," Leon said.


http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=qw1153139221115B265
Replying to a question in parliament last month, Safety and Security Minister Charles Nqakula said the past financial year's crime data would be released to Parliament in September, and would continue to be done once a year.

More frequent reports were not advisable, he said, as they did not show conclusive trends, took up too much human resources to compile, and could assist criminals plan their activities.

Blaming the ANC government is also very short sighted. Since no crime statistics were published before 1994 by the old government. The reason why us white folk have such a bad perception of crime at the moment is not because there has been a massive increase in crime in general. It's because the crime the rest of country and the majority of the population has endured all along has now washed over to our previously whites-only neighbourhoods.

um, wrong

 

[mancombseepgood]

We can complain about the crime statistics all we like. The stats aren't too bad and South Africa is one of only 20 countries in the world that releases annual crime statistics.

Anyone know when the last stats were released?

 

[ajak]

COME BACK KOKEY COME BACK,THE NSA`s `want your money and your life....PLEASE COME BACK,

 

[kilo39]

COME BACK KOKEY COME BACK,THE NSA`s `want your money and your life....PLEASE COME BACK,

my gun be bigger than your gun!

edit: oops, see he is in london! well there you have it: highest car theft in the world! boohoo!

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=qw1154343064401B245
South Africa had one of the highest rates of violent crime in the world, he said in a statement on Monday.

"While there may be more car thefts in London, the reality is that London had 178 murders in 2005, while Johannesburg, with a population half the size, experienced 2 191 murders in the same period -

 

[Inertia]

I think any jail time is good, whether it be awaiting trial or actaul convictions. I know for a fact that inmates, whether convicted or awaiting trial, get a very hard time in the prisons, and the wait is usually not shorter than a few weeks. I can tell you now that three weeks in one of those hell holes will make a criminal think twice abt commiting another crime.

Just wanna share one of the many experiences i have had with SAPS, which was a very good one. Long story short, got mugged on street corner with group of friends, got my cellphone stolen. Ran down the street after the two blokes, was quite a scene, 20 white guys sprinting down a dodgy dark road .. My one friend had been continuously on the line with SAPS, called literally 5 secs after mugging. Ofcourse he had been on hold 90% of the time, so the call centre was practically useless. Anyway luck would have it, a patrol car was in the area and pulled over, i got in with another black guy, we drove ard for abt 10 min and eventually found the guys abt 5 km's away with my phone. Witnessed the arrest, and the cops are no pansy's. One guy tried to run away, and got a rifle butt to the head. By the time they were in the car, they were both sobibng like little girls. The cops gave them a right scare.

At the station, i could hear them getting a good beat-down round back, jsut what they deserved. Anyway turned out they were in jail for 3 weeks awaiting trial, with both there records tainted. I was called to attend the trial, but was told it was not necessary as they had pleaded guilty.

In a period of 2 weeks after the mugging, i was contacted by two pyschologists asking if i was ok and if i needed to book consultations after what i had been through. I stressed that it wasn't that big a deal, and lauded there good intentions.

Now that's the kind of world class service i could expect from the police.

 

[Vaughan]

Guys SAPS don't decide wether someone is locked away or releases that is the court and in S.A. our police are paid so little compared to other countrys, would you risk your life for that. And finally there is so much crime that the police cannot cope, but they do an ok job overall and a very good job for there funding its's the rest of the justice system that is the problem.

 

[Skeptik]

We can complain about the crime statistics all we like. The stats aren't too bad and South Africa is one of only 20 countries in the world that releases annual crime statistics.

Blaming the ANC government is also very short sighted. Since no crime statistics were published before 1994 by the old government. The reason why us white folk have such a bad perception of crime at the moment is not because there has been a massive increase in crime in general. It's because the crime the rest of country and the majority of the population has endured all along has now washed over to our previously whites-only neighbourhoods.

Crime has increased to an unacceptible level. I don't believe people are complaining purely about an increase, but the fact that are not prepared to live with a HIGH CRIME RATE. We even have criminals in parliament!

 

[DigitalSoldier]

Guys SAPS don't decide wether someone is locked away or releases .

Actually indirectly the SAPS do decide if they investigate properly there would be more convictions. Also I think a bit of trial for some one in "trial prison" is bad most of these criminals get out of jail worse than they were when they got into the system. But this is still a good article xtermin8or glad to hear the police actually do make arrests

 

[kokey]

apprise yourself of the stats - then comment on the crime levels:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

First of all, the above stats use figures from 2000 and before. That means it's over 6 years out of date.

Rather use more up to date figures like these: http://www.iss.co.za/CJM/stats0904/_pdf/gauteng/gprovincialtotal.pdf and do the calculations.

Actually someone else has bothered to do just that:
http://www.sagoodnews.co.za/newsletter/previous_newsletters/newsletter_46.htm

The new figure put us at the 10th in the world if all crimes were equal. Unfortunately we're still pretty high with violent crimes, but even with those were aren't even the champions anymore, just with rape.

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=qw1153139221115B265
Replying to a question in parliament last month, Safety and Security Minister Charles Nqakula said the past financial year's crime data would be released to Parliament in September, and would continue to be done once a year.

More frequent reports were not advisable, he said, as they did not show conclusive trends, took up too much human resources to compile, and could assist criminals plan their activities.

Well if South Africa released national crime stats more than once per year they would be about the only country in the world to do just that.

I understand that in the 80's we were used to very little crime in our safe neighbourhoods, while the rest of the country lived in poverty unless they mowed your lawn and cleaned your toilet, it comes as a shock to us that we also get to experience of the mess we left the rest of the country in.

In 1994 the new government was given a nice little gift of a bit of debt the National Party left it with. This debt was, in dollar terms, the equivalent of what it cost the US to invade Iraq, something in the order of $142billion. This was money they borrowed in order to buy themselves another 5 years of power at the end of the 80's, you know, those years the interest rates shot up to about 20% and the building industry came to a sudden standstill.

The new government, to protect themselves from what happens with the rest of Africa that is left with debt, had to do some drastic things to lower this debt. Raising taxes would have been catastrophic, so they had to make some hard decisions to cut some very important budgets. Health, police, education and military budgets were slashed almost by half, while at the same time instead of catering for the minory these services had to cater for the majority.

The police was left with a small budget, salaries were pathetic. At the same time we had a police was optimised to enforce apartheid rules like prevent the free movement of people between areas. Affirmative action had to take place and this was nasty, since where the police was previously the instrument of the apartheid government now these police officers were being replaced by those they were previously treating as second rate dirt. That combined with pitiful salaries made the police force quite an attractive place to build your career in.

Considering these challenges the police do a remarkable job, they risk their lives every day. As the government managed to get ahead of the debt and proved against many ods to the rest of the world that they didn't plunge into chaos under new democratic rule, the money situation improved. Police salaries improved, and the amount of police officers out there has improved, and with the current plans the amount of police offers per capita out there will be the same as in the UK in three years from now.

Even with all this, there's an incredibly negative opinion about crime, mostly from people who's grown up in areas that were almost completely unaffected by crime where they lived under the protection of apartheid laws. While on the other hand the crime levels are similar to other US cities, but where there's even greater class divisions in these cities between neighbourhoods than in South Africa so they have more 'safe areas' than we do.

It's good, let some of us get hit by crime, which we were safe against while committing the crime against other humans through apartheid. Experiencing crime might just make us wake up and do something about the crime which has been affecting the whole country for decades or the poverty which has been the real cause of it.

 

[kokey]

I think any jail time is good, whether it be awaiting trial or actaul convictions. I know for a fact that inmates, whether convicted or awaiting trial, get a very hard time in the prisons, and the wait is usually not shorter than a few weeks. I can tell you now that three weeks in one of those hell holes will make a criminal think twice abt commiting another crime.

For many people like us a day or two in a police holding cell is enough to even put us off sharing mp3's illegally for life. Unfortunately for most of the people in South Africa living in poverty their conditions outside of prison is either worse or the same, or their options are so limited in general that they no option other than crimes just to be able to eat, so prison is often not much of a deterrent.

If we address the poverty situation, the crime will sort itself out. That is why I invest in South Africa.

 

[werner]

if my whole garden is infested with ants, it doesnt much skill to step outside and kill 100.
that is not a measure of skill, or good work.

while I wouldnt want to be a policeman myself (I am too **** scared thanks) they are just an instrument of the government, a tool to carry out orders to the best of their ability.
If anybody has worked for a w@nker of a boss you will know how difficult it is to get anything done properly, no matter how hard you try.

p.s. arresting a couple of criminals, is NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Saying our crime rate is comparable to boston, is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.