SA's plan for a stated-owned cloud computing mega-network

Leno said:
Is this not the point of SITA (who you only hear about when home affairs etc is down as they are forced to use them)
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It in many ways is the point of SITA, but this is a technological challenge that is almost definitely way beyond an entity like SITA to solve. Partly due to the scale and scope which extends beyond SITAs current scope, and also its more than definitely way beyond SITA's current technical ability to achieve.

A "private cloud" is not a trivial thing to actually implement at all, especially when its across so many disparate system implementations that our government currently has.
 
The problem with international cloud providers is the service based nature and simplfied billing means the opportunity for tenders/corruption becomes limited, no more hardware costs to inflate pricing, limited skills costs to add their cut, and the mega wesrtern internationals have seen the cost of colluding with the ANC. As with IPP's the ANC will seek ways to ensure they can continue to loot state coffers than do whats best for the nation....

South Africa especially governement does not have the skills to build and maintain a cloud platform, all it will lead to is huge outsourcing costs to internationals that will be willing to collude with the ANC.
 
Barbarian Conan said:
I think the data within borders thing is a non issue. With Azure, and I'm sure the the rest as well, you can choose where your data resides. MS has a whole bunch of compliance docs on their site, and I doubt our data standards are more stringent than GDPR, which they completely comply with.

As for costs... different regions in Azure have different costs for some services, reflecting the different costs to operate in different regions. I can't comment whether it's really cost effective for an SA company to use the cloud, and I guess it depends. If you need the elasticity, like for example on black Friday, or if it means you can get rid of a couple of employees, it may make sense for you.
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We don't even need to think that far. Microsoft will license Azure on-prem to anyone who needs it, and they will also sell you complete Azure Compute Modules that you can move around and secure as needed.

We really don't need to consolidate everything and swallow SITA at the same time.

Heck, I don't even know why Stella needs to make her mark with something like this. Telkom/BCX already has all the infrastructure available, and their uptime and service is far better than SITA's. Hardware costs should be minimal and the only thing that's changing is the structure of the entity managing this.
 
CataclysmZA said:
We don't even need to think that far. Microsoft will license Azure on-prem to anyone who needs it, and they will also sell you complete Azure Compute Modules that you can move around and secure as needed.

We really don't need to consolidate everything and swallow SITA at the same time.

Heck, I don't even know why Stella needs to make her mark with something like this. Telkom/BCX already has all the infrastructure available, and their uptime and service is far better than SITA's. Hardware costs should be minimal and the only thing that's changing is the structure of the entity managing this.
Click to expand...

Azure and AWS both have On-Prem solutions that "extend" the cloud into your on-prem world. But of course for a purely IaaS type of world these things are not necessarily cost effective at all if you really crunch the numbers properly.
 
As I pointed out in another thread,

The SDIC will form the foundation of network connectivity for government’s cloud computing and data sovereignty ambitions.
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they want to be data custodians. This is not to compete with Azure, AWS and the like, but to be an extension to data compliance. Expect POPIA to be amended accordingly as these policies take shape.

Having a look at the policy issues on competition:

https://businesstech.co.za/news/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Cloud.pdf (PDF)

10.7 Policy Issues on Competition The digital economy requires a competition policy that will level the playing field, enabling the creation of, access to and capturing of value from data and cloud services. The European Union is proposing a Digital Services Act (DSA), which introduces a new ex ante regulatory regime (a regime based on forecasts rather than actual results) for digital platforms. The main goal is to create balance between competition, innovation and protection.

For South Africa, existing legislative frameworks would need to be adapted to provide for competitive and contestable markets. This is necessary because current polices and legislation were not designed to regulate competition in the digital economy. The existing polices and legislation should be broadened to consider, for example, consumer choice, market structure, switching costs and lock-in effects.

On 07 September 2020, the Competition Commission published a paper titled Competition in the Digital Economy for public comment. The paper argues that, ‘the arrival and rapid rise of the digital economy presents the country with an opportunity to reverse the pervasive, triple scourge of unemployment, inequality and poverty. But in order to harness the promised benefits of digitalisation, there is a need to create a commercial and regulatory environment designed to extract those benefits and distribute them in a way that ensures inclusive economic growth, that is
(i) increased and meaningful employment;
(ii) equality; and
(iii) shared prosperity’.

The paper further warns against the risk of global concentration which is characterised by further marginalisation of vulnerable countries and businesses. ‘Therefore, intentional regulation is required to avoid outcomes that could harm the development of small businesses, consumers and ultimately the economic growth so needed in South Africa’s developing economy’.
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There are many other sections worth snipping to discuss which supports my speculative remark. Reading the above, it is obvious that the state would wish to be the consumer's choice and would also be in the position to manipulate the consumer choice and to regulate the consumer choice. Do expect the digital landscape to also be a restitution target, equality, and shared prosperity??? Shared prosperity like in regulating ownership targets, the same as intentionally regulating SMME ownership to harm small business development… rich policy is very rich.

The state is making it harder to have minority access to market opportunity.

I don’t mind the state competing in this sector and industry, but the attached anti-competitive nature to this is not sitting well with me. The ICASA thing got to me which dragged me back to a discussion board I don’t want to participate in any more.

I said years ago that the state will pursue small businesses to set targets where lucrative, it happened, and I am saying it now, the state wants to control this particular economic activity. Time will tell, but ever since the state adopted the ‘intervention’ lingo they have been radical in changing the market (and racial) competition.

To get back to data sovereignty ambitions. It is an expansive term. In European data laws it aims to empower citizens and entities to decide which data can be gathered, shared, used and saved, and this is incredibly extensive. We have a desire to be open-source, but I believe it lacks elaboration. To quote the policy,

The integrity of any digital economy, as a sharing economy, depends on the extent to which it delivers the sharing advantages to its ecosystem partners, and its ability to drive openness whilst protecting citizens, customers and partners.
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which begs whether there is a motive to share private data with the state? I am under the impressions that moves are made to turn SA entities into cooperatives.

Also, don't be surprised to see these same principles applied to domain name authority regulations.

Yes, regulations are needed, but do know that the state plans to compete with an established market and that these regulations will be prioritising the SOE.
 
“Open standards and open source software”

Cool cool cool cool cool cool... R1000 says they won’t make it past the openstack and ceph documentation.
 
This article highlights a problem with sa government . They like to talk a big game with fancy buzz words but actually don’t have a clue . Other examples talking about 4industrial revolution but can’t even provide power . Do we honestly believe that Stella would actually have a real job in a real company if they were not loud mouth value destroying politician.This idea might have one or two good ideas in theory but the we all know how it will turn out .
 
jambai said:
This article highlights a problem with sa government . They like to talk a big game with fancy buzz words but actually don’t have a clue . Other examples talking about 4industrial revolution but can’t even provide power . Do we honestly believe that Stella would actually have a real job in a real company if they were not loud mouth value destroying politician.This idea might have one or two good ideas in theory but the we all know how it will turn out .
Click to expand...
National Health Insurance
Wireless open access network

Yup, they talk big! And fail dismally.
 
Fulcrum29 said:
As I pointed out in another thread,



they want to be data custodians. This is not to compete with Azure, AWS and the like, but to be an extension to data compliance. Expect POPIA to be amended accordingly as these policies take shape.

Having a look at the policy issues on competition:

https://businesstech.co.za/news/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Cloud.pdf (PDF)



There are many other sections worth snipping to discuss which supports my speculative remark. Reading the above, it is obvious that the state would wish to be the consumer's choice and would also be in the position to manipulate the consumer choice and to regulate the consumer choice. Do expect the digital landscape to also be a restitution target, equality, and shared prosperity??? Shared prosperity like in regulating ownership targets, the same as intentionally regulating SMME ownership to harm small business development… rich policy is very rich.

The state is making it harder to have minority access to market opportunity.

I don’t mind the state competing in this sector and industry, but the attached anti-competitive nature to this is not sitting well with me. The ICASA thing got to me which dragged me back to a discussion board I don’t want to participate in any more.

I said years ago that the state will pursue small businesses to set targets where lucrative, it happened, and I am saying it now, the state wants to control this particular economic activity. Time will tell, but ever since the state adopted the ‘intervention’ lingo they have been radical in changing the market (and racial) competition.

To get back to data sovereignty ambitions. It is an expansive term. In European data laws it aims to empower citizens and entities to decide which data can be gathered, shared, used and saved, and this is incredibly extensive. We have a desire to be open-source, but I believe it lacks elaboration. To quote the policy,



which begs whether there is a motive to share private data with the state? I am under the impressions that moves are made to turn SA entities into cooperatives.

Also, don't be surprised to see these same principles applied to domain name authority regulations.

Yes, regulations are needed, but do know that the state plans to compete with an established market and that these regulations will be prioritising the SOE.
Click to expand...
I'd rather use the term Data Controllers. Data Custodians means that they need to actually do the work.
 
As a private individual or business, would you trust a state-owned enterprise with your data?
 
RonSwanson said:
I'd rather use the term Data Controllers. Data Custodians means that they need to actually do the work.
Click to expand...

Sure, but I predict the state to obligate their competition to cooperative agreements in the time to come. It won't be soon, but we tend to pursue economic models already imposed by other countries and there are real examples in the BRICS spectrum. All I am getting at is that the state wants to control economic (and digital data) activity within our borders.
 
ToxicBunny said:
In the South African context, with their track record. Nope, not even remotely.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Funny how we came to this idea now that China is pursuing exactly this since the US imposed prohibitive regulations. Unlike China, we don't have domestic technologies, so I wonder whose technologies we will source. I don't see us build our own cloud, well, it will be our own cloud but it won't be our own 'domestic' technologies.

asia.nikkei.com

China's state-owned tech giant gets into cloud computing

CEC unveils new service in Wuhan as US tightens restrictions
asia.nikkei.com asia.nikkei.com

Oh, and does this not ring a bell?

supchina.com

Will China's government-controlled cloud rain on fintech innovation? – The China Project

The Chinese government has demonstrated a willingness to innovate in the financial services technology sector. For example, the People's Bank of China (PBOC) has announced accelerated plans for a central bank digital currency (CBDC), and filed scores of CBDC patents (paywall), while private...
supchina.com supchina.com

The Chinese government has demonstrated a willingness to innovate in the financial services technology sector. For example, the People's Bank of China (PBOC) has announced accelerated plans for a central bank digital currency (CBDC), and filed scores of CBDC patents (paywall), while private sector fintech initiatives like Baidu’s Xuperchain network have been introduced to great fanfare. What's more, the PBOC's Fintech Development Plan 2019–2021 (in Chinese) expresses support for technological innovation, including the use of cloud storage for financial data such as payments.
Click to expand...

Smart cities... either we are trying to copy hi-tech China and or the Chinese advisory to our state council is streamlining us in preparation.

I don't mind hi-tech, civilization is moving into the digital domain, but I don't want to be digitally centralised by the state. We are not the Borg.
 
Barbarian Conan said:
I think the data within borders thing is a non issue. With Azure, and I'm sure the the rest as well, you can choose where your data resides. MS has a whole bunch of compliance docs on their site, and I doubt our data standards are more stringent than GDPR, which they completely comply with.

As for costs... different regions in Azure have different costs for some services, reflecting the different costs to operate in different regions. I can't comment whether it's really cost effective for an SA company to use the cloud, and I guess it depends. If you need the elasticity, like for example on black Friday, or if it means you can get rid of a couple of employees, it may make sense for you.

As for the dev shops screwing up... I worked for a dev shop that did work for one of the banks, and there was very little room for us to screw up because of how the bank managed it. You can and should blame the dev shop, but at the end of the day government isn't some one-man-show getting a website done who is completely at the mercy of the designer. They are massive customers, and dev work of that nature is more like a partnership than a customer/client relationship.

Data... yeah... they can't even balance the books in most municipalities, now they need to comply with privacy and audit ISO standards.
Click to expand...
AWS has a local data centre.
 
Fulcrum29 said:
As a private individual or business, would you trust a state-owned enterprise with your data?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't even trust them with a lollipop let alone sensitive data. They have shown time and again that they can't organise a piss up in a brewery, let alone run a successful business.
 
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I like this part

At the same time the document calls for "the South African Government to play a more central role in the collection, dissemination, and analysis of data, understanding that key economic advantages are contained within it".

That starts with the data the government owns and generates – but the private sector should also be made to share with the government data that "could enhance government’s planning and service delivery capability, without infringing on the rights of citizens".
 
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