Satrix resi

Wait, not sure where I got 39K. My memory seems to be sucking today. The 2008 peak was closer to 33K. In that case the real growth has been about -15% on capital over 5 years. Dividends on the ALSI I would guess averages somewhere between 3 and 4% per annum so we are perhaps flat for the 5 year period which still means a bear market but is a significantly better picture than my previous flawed analysis. Unless I am wrong again.

/Waits to learn.
 
Yep, the problem with that system is its very susceptible to daily fluctuation. On the specific day J203 could have been 29K when the 3 month average for the share could have been significantly different. If you did the same calc from after the 08 crash when the ALSI dropped bellow 20K you would be showing growth close to 150% till today. The issue I have is most people did not buy in the trough nor did they sell at the peak. Most people's shares are wrapped up in pension products and so get the broad average and the average is not that good. Its at best matching inflation since that March 08 peak. I just read my pensions annual report (Alan Grey) and they are also warning that shares did unusually well this year and they do not expect the current run to last long.

Anyways.
 
Cius said:
Yep, the problem with that system is its very susceptible to daily fluctuation. On the specific day J203 could have been 29K when the 3 month average for the share could have been significantly different. If you did the same calc from after the 08 crash when the ALSI dropped bellow 20K you would be showing growth close to 150% till today. The issue I have is most people did not buy in the trough nor did they sell at the peak. Most people's shares are wrapped up in pension products and so get the broad average and the average is not that good. Its at best matching inflation since that March 08 peak. I just read my pensions annual report (Alan Grey) and they are also warning that shares did unusually well this year and they do not expect the current run to last long.

Anyways.
Click to expand...

I think the Average UT returned 16% for 2012, whilst the alsi did 26%
 
Cius said:
Yep, the problem with that system is its very susceptible to daily fluctuation. On the specific day J203 could have been 29K when the 3 month average for the share could have been significantly different. If you did the same calc from after the 08 crash when the ALSI dropped bellow 20K you would be showing growth close to 150% till today. The issue I have is most people did not buy in the trough nor did they sell at the peak. Most people's shares are wrapped up in pension products and so get the broad average and the average is not that good. Its at best matching inflation since that March 08 peak. I just read my pensions annual report (Alan Grey) and they are also warning that shares did unusually well this year and they do not expect the current run to last long.

Anyways.
Click to expand...

So time period chosen and the performance in that time period determines the type of market you percieve to be occuring (bull or bear)? So I choose a year and say its a bull market, you choose 5 years and says its a bear market? Or is it just a bull year in a bear market?

Pondering... :D
 
supersunbird said:
So time period chosen and the performance in that time period determines the type of market you percieve to be occuring (bull or bear)? So I choose a year and say its a bull market, you choose 5 years and says its a bear market? Or is it just a bull year in a bear market?

Pondering... :D
Click to expand...

Hehe, I like the last line best. Bull year in a bear market. Seriously though, I think the technical definition of a bear market is at least a 20% drop with a long period of stagnation or decline after that. In that case I guess you could call March 2008 the end of the previous bull market. The subsequent 4 years where certainly a bear market. This year has been much better but again, my gut it telling me things are a bit overvalued and that it will correct downwards again next year. Still, who knows. Personally I doubt we will see a bull cycle like the pre-2008 one anytime soon.
 
marco said:
STXRES has been flat for 3 years. You would have done better at the Post Office. Of all the SATRIX's the IND would have given the best at 30% pa over the past 3 years.
If you thinking that because it HAS been flat, it will pick up now. That is plain gambling. It will not make gains due to the sector turbulence and this will continue for some time to come.
Click to expand...

Yes, STXIND has done exceptionally well the last few years.
I'm aware that high PE's are not everything to consider, but the large holdings in STXIND have high PE's, this makes one wonder if its good run is coming to an end, any comments?
 
Hendrix said:
Yes, STXIND has done exceptionally well the last few years.
I'm aware that high PE's are not everything to consider, but the large holdings in STXIND have high PE's, this makes one wonder if its good run is coming to an end, any comments?
Click to expand...
The managers of STXIND will change their holdings accordingly.
 
marco said:
The managers of STXIND will change their holdings accordingly.
Click to expand...

There are no managers!!! Its not a managed fund, just get the idea and stop lying!

http://www.satrix.co.za/products/satrix indi.aspx

Satrix INDI endeavours to replicate the performance of the FTSE/JSE Industrial 25 index. This index comprises the top 25 industrial companies listed on the JSE.

Satrix INDI accurately replicates the FTSE/JSE INDI 25 index, by holding the shares in this index in exactly the weighted and number they constitute the index. Dividends paid by the underlying companies, less expenses incurred by managing the portfolio, are paid out to Satrix INDI shareholders on a quarterly basis.

Investors who purchase and hold Satrix INDI securities accordingly, obtain the performance and yield of the top 25 industrial companies in the JSE with the convenience and low cost of a single trade.
Click to expand...

The managers refered too is more like admin fees and a bit of profit. Either a company has the market share to be in the Top 25 industrial companies or it doesn't, it all boils down to market share. There is not some guy sitting and looking at all the industrial companies and saying these 25 are the best. They're inclusion and weight on the index is purely based on their market capitalization.

Go post that assertion of yours on sharechat, you will soon be corrected.
 
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supersunbird said:
There are no managers!!! Its not a managed fund, just get the idea and stop lying!

http://www.satrix.co.za/products/satrix indi.aspx



The managers refered too is more like admin fees and a bit of profit. Either a company has the market share to be in the Top 25 industrial companies of it doesn't, it all boils down to market share. There is not some guy sitting and looking at all the industrial companies and saying these 25 are the best. They're inclusion and weight on the index is purely based on their market capitalization.

Go post that assertion of yours on sharechat, you will soon be corrected.
Click to expand...

Ag née man, we've told him plenty of times now of index trackers work.
 
supersunbird said:
There are no managers!!! Its not a managed fund, just get the idea and stop lying!

http://www.satrix.co.za/products/satrix indi.aspx



The managers refered too is more like admin fees and a bit of profit. Either a company has the market share to be in the Top 25 industrial companies or it doesn't, it all boils down to market share. There is not some guy sitting and looking at all the industrial companies and saying these 25 are the best. They're inclusion and weight on the index is purely based on their market capitalization.

Go post that assertion of yours on sharechat, you will soon be corrected.
Click to expand...

You did not add the last section from that website so I will do so for you.

The Industrial 25 index contains no mining, financial and resource based shares and therefore provides a focused entry to the domestic South African economy. It also contains a number of middle-capitalisation companies that do not qualify for the Top 40 index, and therefore helps spread the exposure of the investors to some of the better performing smaller shares on the JSE.

Now who picks these stocks? The admin clerk?

It is a MANAGED STX FUND. So you are the lier.
 
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marco said:
Now who picks these stocks? The admin clerk?
Click to expand...
Nobody picks them!! What the hell is wrong with you? Do you have even the most basic idea of how index trackers work?

All shares on the JSE is classified into industry groupings (e.g. resources, industrials, financials, . The INDI 25 is simply an index calculated by FTSE/JSE of the 25 shares with the largest market capitalisations in the Industrial group.

There is absolutely ZERO manager involvement apart from re-weighting the portfolio to INDI 25 basket.
 
marco said:
You did not add the last section from that website so I will do so for you.

The Industrial 25 index contains no mining, financial and resource based shares and therefore provides a focused entry to the domestic South African economy. It also contains a number of middle-capitalisation companies that do not qualify for the Top 40 index, and therefore helps spread the exposure of the investors to some of the better performing smaller shares on the JSE.

Now who picks these stocks? The admin clerk?
Click to expand...

The market picks these stocks.

The Top 40 is the top 40 by market capatilisation. If a companies shares price drops (and thus the market capatilisation goes down) and the market capatilisation drops below the company that was 41st, then the 41st company will go up to position 40 and join the Top 40 and the other one will fall off it.

With the Resi and Indi and Fini indexes it works exactly the same but just companies in those sectors and the number of companies that they index differs.

Do you understand what I just said?
 
Rkootknir said:
Nobody picks them!! What the hell is wrong with you? Do you have even the most basic idea of how index trackers work?

All shares on the JSE is classified into industry groupings (e.g. resources, industrials, financials, . The INDI 25 is simply an index calculated by FTSE/JSE of the 25 shares with the largest market capitalisations in the Industrial group.

There is absolutely ZERO manager involvement apart from re-weighting the portfolio to INDI 25 basket.
Click to expand...

Explain to me who chooses which of the better performing or valued Mid Caps to add to the portfolio?
 
Wow..

I'm not an investor and even I know this kind of stuff.

Marco, you really need to listen to people who know more about this stuff than you do, you will stop making yourself look like an idiot.
 
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