Seems like Nokia is not doing so well

I think the WP move by Nokia has actually been pretty smart...

Yes there will be some lean times for the company coming, but overall I think they've gone the right way. The OS is actually bloody good and getting better all the time...

Once WP8 and Windows 8 are out there I think it will be a VERY different ballgame.
 
I think the WP move by Nokia has actually been pretty smart...

Yes there will be some lean times for the company coming, but overall I think they've gone the right way. The OS is actually bloody good and getting better all the time...

Once WP8 and Windows 8 are out there I think it will be a VERY different ballgame.

Yes but you can argue that once WP is main stream Microsoft will be able to dump their sorry buts and pay attention to all the other OEM's as well. Its not a good position to be in when you need Microsoft more than they need you. We all know how well that worked out in the past.
 
There is that possibility yes.... and yes its a dangerous move from a company...

There of course could be conspiracy theories alogn the lines of Google buying Motorola.. where you could say MS are softening up Nokia for a purchase...
 
There is that possibility yes.... and yes its a dangerous move from a company...

There of course could be conspiracy theories alogn the lines of Google buying Motorola.. where you could say MS are softening up Nokia for a purchase...

I kind of agree with the statements made by ZDnet seen bellow on this regard, I doubt Microsoft will be so stupid to do this. Unless they want to solely create Windows Phones and exclude all other OEM's from making them.

The current Nokia-Microsoft deal is the nearly perfect test of whether Microsoft can evolve its business model without disturbing those sensitive partner relationships. When the deal was announced six months ago, some Microsoft partners, like HTC and Samsung, had to be nervous about Nokia’s special arrangement. Ironically, Google solved that problem for Microsoft with its acquisition of Motorola. Now, Microsoft looks like the one that has been sensitive to its partners by not becoming a direct competitor.

The Nokia deal has all sorts of advantages for Microsoft, not the least of which is Nokia’s vast worldwide reach and established billing networks worldwide. Back in April, in an interview at the MIX conference, Windows Phone General Manager Matt Bencke told me that the number-one benefit of the Nokia deal is that it will allow the Windows Phone platform to scale faster: “Nokia ships more phones than the top three PC OEMs all put together,” he noted. “They have supply chain and manufacturing in place in all major [geographic regions] and they have operator billing worldwide.”

Those are formidable advantages. And make no mistake about it: Nokia is huge. Its share of the smartphone market is larger than any competitor—five times larger than Motorola, for which Google is about to pay $12.5 billion. (See this New York Times infographic for a superb illustration of just how Nokia compares to its competitors.)

In addition, the partnership combines a truly enviable collection of patents. According to my colleague Mary Jo Foley, Microsoft is kicking in “payments measured in the billions of dollars” to Nokia, which in turn is making “substantial payments” to license Microsoft’s patents. ZDNet’s Larry Dignan notes, correctly, “It’s safe to say Nokia comes out ahead on the payment side of the equation.”

The cross-licensing essentially makes each company about as lawsuit-proof as you can get in our current, patent-crazed world.

Given the depth of that relationship, what could possibly motivate Microsoft to buy Nokia? What else would they get except the management headache of running a very large company and anger from their existing partners? Nothing.

Google is willing to risk alienating its Android partners. But that is a calculated risk for Google. It needs Motorola’s patents to defend the Android operating system that its partners get for free. Microsoft doesn’t need to buy the patents, nor can it afford to take a similar risk with its partners by buying Nokia.

Source ZDnet

20110816_HANDSET_graphic-popup-v2.jpg
 
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Owning a Microsoft device has a ZERO coolness factor. There is no "Wow!". Consumers are so used to MS and Windows on their computers at work and home that they want to go elsewhere for their mobile needs. Having a Windows phone/tablet just doesn't make one feel like owning something special. MS and Windows are like Citi Golf in a world where Ferrari is the norm.
 
I don't know, that used to be true, but the new WP7 is extremely cool in my opinion. And the Lumia 800 is a stunning phone, I think it's the best looking phone out there, beating even the iPhones.

I think Nokia's slump was to be expected, they were blindsided by Android & iPhone and didn't respond very quickly or emphatically to the challenge. They've committed to Windows Phone now and are making the best phones for the platform. Give it some time, especially when Windows 8 comes out - I think we will see some recovery.
 
There will be a recovery, for sure, but what I'm struggling to appreciate is what unique feature of WP7/8 will be so enticing that people will jump from Apple and Android to WP? What has MS and Nokia got that will get me to jump from my Galaxy Note to one of their phones?

MS and Nokia will have to come up with a killer feature that the others cannot copy/do. Or they will have to come in at a lower price point (ie. better value) ... which I see as Android's strength. Build quality - especially now that all Nokia manufacturing has moved to China - will not be a differential factor any more. The likes of Samsung has made huge strides in this dept anyway. When it comes to brand coolness Apple wins hands down. What sets WP apart that I must have (and the others cannot give in some shape/size)?\

This is why I am of the opinion that MS should get RIM. They need something different that will lock customers in, something like BBM and BIS.
 
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Wow... such hatred for MS...

Have you actively USED a WP7 phone BeVonk!?
The OS is brilliant, the interface is slick smooth and incredibly useful.

As a phone the Lumia 800 is gorgeous, and the build quality is awesome as well.
 
Wow... such hatred for MS...

Have you actively USED a WP7 phone BeVonk!?
The OS is brilliant, the interface is slick smooth and incredibly useful.

As a phone the Lumia 800 is gorgeous, and the build quality is awesome as well.

Hatred? Where? I genuinely want answers to those questions. An answer like "The OS is brilliant, the interface is slick smooth and incredibly useful. As a phone the Lumia 800 is gorgeous, and the build quality is awesome as well." isn't getting me closer to a resolution. Tell me what is so different that sets it apart from the products already dominating the market that will give MS and Nokia a larger share of the market. I even suggested a solution (RIM), so I'm not sure why you see my comments as hatred.
 
Wow... such hatred for MS...

Have you actively USED a WP7 phone BeVonk!?
The OS is brilliant, the interface is slick smooth and incredibly useful.

As a phone the Lumia 800 is gorgeous, and the build quality is awesome as well.

Hatred? Where? I genuinely want answers to those questions. An answer like "The OS is brilliant, the interface is slick smooth and incredibly useful. As a phone the Lumia 800 is gorgeous, and the build quality is awesome as well." isn't getting me closer to a resolution. Tell me what is so different that sets it apart from the products already dominating the market that will give MS and Nokia a larger share of the market. I even suggested a solution (RIM), so I'm not sure why you see my comments as hatred.
 
I see them as hatred because you are negative about the product, before even trying it....

What sets it apart from iOS or Android is the interface and how slick and clean it is.

Android as an interface is messy and at times slow.
iOS as an interface is good and intuitive, but WP just seems to be better than iOS in the intuitive department for me at least.

and RIM is not a solution, as a company RIM is in the process of dying, their OS is rubbish (except for BIS and BES, which are quite rapidly not selling points anymore)
 
Add another 1000 unemployed

Nokia finalizes 1,000 job cuts in Finland

Nokia (NOK1V.HE) finished on Thursday job cut talks with the staff at its plant in Salo, Finland, resulting in planned lay-offs of up to 1,000 people.

The jobs at the last large cellphone manufacturing plant in Western Europe will be cut gradually through 2012, with most cuts happening by the end of June, the company said.

The remaining staff at the plant will focus on tailoring models for European operators.

Nokia is in the midst of a massive revamp of operations under its new Chief executive Stephen Elop, and it has closed plants and cut thousands of jobs globally since last year.

Source Reuters
 
Seems to me Nokia was pushing out phones without properly debugging the software. My E52 had numerous glitches including a major crash that lost all my information. I used Nokia for years, now gone android with a Samsung.
 
No Angry Birds Space for WP. Not helping this OS.

Wow, I didn't know that. After your post I Google and came up with
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...ion-skips-windows-phone-in-blow-to-nokia.html

Interesting read.

Edit: oops forgot top post for those without access....

Angry Birds Space Game Skips Windows Phone in Blow to Nokia

Nokia is betting on the Windows Phone operating system to revive its struggling smartphone business and the lack of “Angry Birds” may make it more difficult for the company, based in the same Espoo, Finland-based office park as Rovio, to attract gaming-oriented users. Nokia Chief Executive Officer Stephen Elop has introduced several Windows Phones since October and plans to bring the handsets next to China, where “Angry Birds” took off last year.

“China has been our second-largest market, but it’s actually been the fastest-growing for quite a while, and it could well be that China becomes the biggest market this year,” Vesterbacka said.

Windows Phone Push

Nokia spokesman James Etheridge had no immediate comment when contacted today. The company’s shares were unchanged at 3.94 euros in Helsinki trading as of 12:10 p.m. Before today, the stock had declined 33 percent in the last 12 months.

Elop, who took over at the world’s largest mobile-phone maker in 2010, shifted to Windows Phone last year after determining Nokia’s Symbian and MeeGo systems couldn’t keep up with Android, the fastest-growing smartphone platform, and the iPhone.

Microsoft plans to bring its Windows Phone software to 23 more countries for a total of 63 and put the operating system on less expensive smartphones, it said last month. The company aims to move quickly in developing economies, where Google and Apple are less dominant, before cheaper Android phones can strengthen Google’s position.

For the time being, it’s too expensive for Rovio to adapt new games to Windows Phones, Vesterbacka said.

Considering the Costs

“If you look at activations, Apple’s iOS and Android are clearly bigger than any other platform,” he said. “We want to be on all screens, but we have to consider the cost of supplying the smaller platforms. With Windows Phone it’s a lot of work to technically support it.”

“Angry Birds” may reach a billion cumulative downloads in the next few months, boosted by the introduction of “Space,” and 2 billion by the end of the year, he said. That compares to just 50 million in late 2010, a year after the unveiling of the original game. Rovio predicts to introduce four more Angry Birds games by the end of the year, Vesterbacka said.

Basic “Angry Birds” game play consists of using a virtual slingshot to fling birds at structures populated by green pigs. The game zoomed to the top of the chart in Apple Inc.’s online app store in 2010 before being rolled out for Android phones, desktop computers and e-readers. The Facebook version is approaching 20 million active users, Vesterbacka said.

Rovio, which has more than 300 employees, also sold about 25 million plush toys last year and has started a book division with a cookbook and comics.

Closely held Rovio published 51 games for Nokia phones and other handsets before releasing “Angry Birds.” The game is on Nokia’s current smartphones and some lower-end models.

The new version of “Angry Birds,” which takes place in space with planetary gravity interfering with the birds’ flight paths, is available for Windows personal computers as well as Apple Mac computers.
 
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A rather long article, but well worth a read:
http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2012/03/brutal-truth-about-lumia-cannot-sustain-even-1-to-1-replacement-of-symbian-windows-phone-strategy-do.html

And some stats from the article:

NOKIA IN FOUR STAGES BY KANTAR (UK MARKET SHARES)

September 2010 before Microsoft . . . . . . . 23.1% market share in UK (Symbian + Maemo)
February 2011 after Elop announcement . . 12.4% market share in UK (Symbian)
September 2011 just before Lumia launch . . 6.7% market share in UK (Symbian)
February 2012 after Lumia sold 4 months . . 4.6% market share in UK (Symbian + Windows Phone)
MICROSOFT IN FOUR STAGES BY KANTAR (UK MARKET SHARES)

September 2010 before Nokia . . . . . . . . . 1.0% market share in UK
February 2011 after Nokia announcement . 0.5% market share in UK
September 2011 just before Lumia launch . 0.5% market share in UK
February 2012 after Lumia sold 4 months . 0.4% market share in UK (excluding Nokia)

COMPARE TO NOW WITH NOKIA

February 2012 after Lumia sold 4 months . 2.5% market share in UK (including Nokia)

Edit:
A follow up article on how to fix the problem:
http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2012/03/the-ceo-insane-how-to-rescue-nokia.html

And the Android community is already doing what Nokia should have done last year:
http://phandroid.com/2012/03/23/nokia-n9-running-android-4-0-3-could-be-the-sexiest-android-device-on-the-market-video/
 
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I saw that, I am sooooooo tempted to get a N9 its not even funny.

Me too :) the only thing that makes me hesitant is that I've played with a few ICS builds on my Desire HD. All of them had some annoying problem.
 
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