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Question of the Day: What's the most interesting small town you've visited in South Africa?
Sentech signals the changes
- Thread starter rpm
- Start date
if only telkom would do something.. i would like to see them make there unshapped 4gb account uncapped. and let it work under the fair usage policy.. like we have here (if you download to much they lower your speed for a day) thats would really be nice.
Sentech are a ripoff.
150MB wouldn't even cover my personal e-mail usage.
ADSL 384 kbps = R 245
ADSL 384 kbps 3GB from Cybersmart = R125
Total = R370
ADSL = 12 cents per MB
Sentech flexiLite = 66 cents per MB
Edit :
Ok their other offerings are a bit better but still much more expensive.
MyWireless flexi3000plus (3GB) = R799.00
That's more than twice the price of a comparable ADSL offering.
150MB wouldn't even cover my personal e-mail usage.
ADSL 384 kbps = R 245
ADSL 384 kbps 3GB from Cybersmart = R125
Total = R370
ADSL = 12 cents per MB
Sentech flexiLite = 66 cents per MB
Edit :
Ok their other offerings are a bit better but still much more expensive.
MyWireless flexi3000plus (3GB) = R799.00
That's more than twice the price of a comparable ADSL offering.
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What diffs does it make?
ADSL, MyWireless and iBurst are all "fixed" in terms of mobility so they should be compared on the same level.
Customers generally don't give a rats ass whether you use copper or radio waves for the connection.
3G, HSDPA, Edge, etc. are mobile so that's another kettle of fish.
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Paul_S : MyWireless and iBurst are mobile. 3G is True Mobile.
You can plug your MyWireless modem into you laptop wherever you are, and it will just work (given that there is reception). You can not do this with ADSL
3G on the other hand, can be used without losing your connection when travelling (In a car for example)
You can plug your MyWireless modem into you laptop wherever you are, and it will just work (given that there is reception). You can not do this with ADSL
3G on the other hand, can be used without losing your connection when travelling (In a car for example)
Ah right - I guess it's a bargain then at only about twice the price of ADSL.
LifelongGamer
Well-Known Member
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I think the point Paul_S was probably trying to make is that although there is a difference in how one connects to the Internet (ie. access mechanism being either 'mobile' or 'fixed') the underlying bandwidth requirement should be viewed as the same. I could be wrong, but that's how I read his point.
Some areas are not part of Telkom's 'golden' plan for DSL rollout until it suits them (if at all) while other areas have no decent wireless signal coverage. Thus you find a lot of people using wireless (be it iBurst / MyWireless / HSDPA if the signal is good enough, or 3G or even plain GPRS if all else fails) simply to have any connection at all and the fact that it is 'mobile' has absolutely no relevance on the choice of package.
That said, at the end of the day - what is the real difference in cost for the underlying bandwidth used between fixed / fixed-wireless / mobile-wireless ... is there a true justifiable explanation at all?
If I use 3Gb of bandwidth per month - in our market (with all it's current flaws) should it make a difference and cost me more / less than if I use 3Gb via a fixed-wireless or true mobile-wireless compared to my ADSL service? Sure, access charges should cover the extra expense for going true mobile-wireless, but surely the bandwidth cost should likewise be similar in price per Gb / Mb regardless of platform used? There will already be issues of speed / signal strength vs contention vs attenuation to differectiate the various connection packages, but 1mb of bandwidth remains 1mb of bandwidth - you don't get any other types of 'bandwidth' do you?
Compare it to fuel. Regardless of whether you drive a sportscar or an entry level 125cc motorcycle, you need fuel. In this case petrol = mobile and diesel = adsl in terms of price comparison. The bandwidth here = the crude oil that is used to provide both the petrol and the diesel. Without the oil, you wouldn't have fuel. Without bandwidth, you wouldn't have internet service. You'd still have an access mechanism to the internet (same like you'd still have the car / motorcycle) but you wouldn't go anywhere without bandwidth (fuel).
It seems the industry should relook at how bandwidth is provided and adjust it for our 'unique' market. Providers like Telkom are always telling us that we cannot have equal level of services and prices (as overseas markets) because our market factors differ substantially from those overseas markets - so why then do they make profits hand-over-fist providing bandwidth and services that does not effectively take our unique factors into account? We all know international access is costly. But that doesn't justify why local access (and especially local bandwidth allowance and local speed / quality) cannot be on par with overseas markets or at least much closer to it than we currently have). If prices for local is dropped to affordable levels for the masses (and I'm not talking R99 for 150mb, I'm talking about R99 (fullprice) for 1Gb unshaped plus R50 premium for using a fixed-wireless access mechanism for a total of R149 / plus another R50 for true mobile-wireless for a total of R199) then a lot more consumers can subscribe for internet services and grow the market until such time as it becomes feasible to compare ourselves directly with overseas markets and structure services and packages along similar lines.
As South Africans, we're used to getting shafted by service providers, but let's not forget the extent to which we get overcharged for sub-standard services. Bringing service levels and allowances under control and within accepted levels does not mean that costs have to remain overpriced - it merely means ensuring more consumers take up your service (by lowering overall costs and ensuring a quality service). In fact, more profits will be made this way by having a medium- long-term approach instead of the short-term method used today.
Regarding the article, it worries me that Sentech wants to invest a further R3Bn to leverage the R10mn already invested in their first-generation 3G network when clearly they are unable to retain more than 4k/5k clients as it is due to their lack of understanding of the product provision vs market needs. Admit their first attempt as a failure and rather cut the R10mn loss and start fresh using the latest technology with the R3Bn tax-funded investment and ensure that the platform address not only current issues, but will also still be usable in the future when the rest of the world moves to 4G / 5G wireless standards.
Of course, this does mean that oversight be enforced to ensure the R3Bn doesn't get wasted or slipped into oily palms / backpockets. Another smart choice would be to outsource the deployment of the new network and client services division to companies that have extensive experience in those fields. Sentech's track record proves that internally they're not up for the task. It's one thing providing services in a protected environment (ask Telkom) but a completely different story when there's already competition in the marketplace.
Some areas are not part of Telkom's 'golden' plan for DSL rollout until it suits them (if at all) while other areas have no decent wireless signal coverage. Thus you find a lot of people using wireless (be it iBurst / MyWireless / HSDPA if the signal is good enough, or 3G or even plain GPRS if all else fails) simply to have any connection at all and the fact that it is 'mobile' has absolutely no relevance on the choice of package.
That said, at the end of the day - what is the real difference in cost for the underlying bandwidth used between fixed / fixed-wireless / mobile-wireless ... is there a true justifiable explanation at all?
If I use 3Gb of bandwidth per month - in our market (with all it's current flaws) should it make a difference and cost me more / less than if I use 3Gb via a fixed-wireless or true mobile-wireless compared to my ADSL service? Sure, access charges should cover the extra expense for going true mobile-wireless, but surely the bandwidth cost should likewise be similar in price per Gb / Mb regardless of platform used? There will already be issues of speed / signal strength vs contention vs attenuation to differectiate the various connection packages, but 1mb of bandwidth remains 1mb of bandwidth - you don't get any other types of 'bandwidth' do you?
Compare it to fuel. Regardless of whether you drive a sportscar or an entry level 125cc motorcycle, you need fuel. In this case petrol = mobile and diesel = adsl in terms of price comparison. The bandwidth here = the crude oil that is used to provide both the petrol and the diesel. Without the oil, you wouldn't have fuel. Without bandwidth, you wouldn't have internet service. You'd still have an access mechanism to the internet (same like you'd still have the car / motorcycle) but you wouldn't go anywhere without bandwidth (fuel).
It seems the industry should relook at how bandwidth is provided and adjust it for our 'unique' market. Providers like Telkom are always telling us that we cannot have equal level of services and prices (as overseas markets) because our market factors differ substantially from those overseas markets - so why then do they make profits hand-over-fist providing bandwidth and services that does not effectively take our unique factors into account? We all know international access is costly. But that doesn't justify why local access (and especially local bandwidth allowance and local speed / quality) cannot be on par with overseas markets or at least much closer to it than we currently have). If prices for local is dropped to affordable levels for the masses (and I'm not talking R99 for 150mb, I'm talking about R99 (fullprice) for 1Gb unshaped plus R50 premium for using a fixed-wireless access mechanism for a total of R149 / plus another R50 for true mobile-wireless for a total of R199) then a lot more consumers can subscribe for internet services and grow the market until such time as it becomes feasible to compare ourselves directly with overseas markets and structure services and packages along similar lines.
As South Africans, we're used to getting shafted by service providers, but let's not forget the extent to which we get overcharged for sub-standard services. Bringing service levels and allowances under control and within accepted levels does not mean that costs have to remain overpriced - it merely means ensuring more consumers take up your service (by lowering overall costs and ensuring a quality service). In fact, more profits will be made this way by having a medium- long-term approach instead of the short-term method used today.
Regarding the article, it worries me that Sentech wants to invest a further R3Bn to leverage the R10mn already invested in their first-generation 3G network when clearly they are unable to retain more than 4k/5k clients as it is due to their lack of understanding of the product provision vs market needs. Admit their first attempt as a failure and rather cut the R10mn loss and start fresh using the latest technology with the R3Bn tax-funded investment and ensure that the platform address not only current issues, but will also still be usable in the future when the rest of the world moves to 4G / 5G wireless standards.
Of course, this does mean that oversight be enforced to ensure the R3Bn doesn't get wasted or slipped into oily palms / backpockets. Another smart choice would be to outsource the deployment of the new network and client services division to companies that have extensive experience in those fields. Sentech's track record proves that internally they're not up for the task. It's one thing providing services in a protected environment (ask Telkom) but a completely different story when there's already competition in the marketplace.
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Hah. You can't move a Sentech modem around and expect to still have a connection!
Abe
Expert Member
R99 for 150meg???? With Virgin Mobile I can get 150Meg for R75, no bundles contracts or 31 days notice.
Abe : I do use Virgin Mobile and Sentech at home
LG : Whilst you do bring up interesting points, the inherent cost of wireless broadband over time is higher than fixed, so it is natural that this cost gets transfered. One way of doing this is via having higher bandwidth costs (Which is where I agree with you. The bandwidth costs the same. The per month access fee should be higher for mobile though)
But let me tell you this, cheap mobile bandwidth has been an absolute revolution at my compan for on-the-road presentations. And Sentech's new prices are fantastic
LG : Whilst you do bring up interesting points, the inherent cost of wireless broadband over time is higher than fixed, so it is natural that this cost gets transfered. One way of doing this is via having higher bandwidth costs (Which is where I agree with you. The bandwidth costs the same. The per month access fee should be higher for mobile though)
But let me tell you this, cheap mobile bandwidth has been an absolute revolution at my compan for on-the-road presentations. And Sentech's new prices are fantastic
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Customer service is so overrated. Customers will put up with a lot..or actualy dont have to if you provide good service and a quality product. The only time you need customer service is when you need to kiss customer ass because youve made a real hash of the service and product you are a purveyer of.
Pricing currently of all the productsa out there are really Telkoms legacy. They initially set an upper limit on costs and it was a good indicator of what the market would bear. All other providers have used this pricing as a yard stick and despite most wireless providers mbeing able to make huge savings on the last mile component of connectivity they have chosen to peg it only slightly below Telkoms offerings. Once providers pass on these last mile savings in a meaningful way we might see some decent (for consumers) price wars.
p.s Nice post Lifelong
Pricing currently of all the productsa out there are really Telkoms legacy. They initially set an upper limit on costs and it was a good indicator of what the market would bear. All other providers have used this pricing as a yard stick and despite most wireless providers mbeing able to make huge savings on the last mile component of connectivity they have chosen to peg it only slightly below Telkoms offerings. Once providers pass on these last mile savings in a meaningful way we might see some decent (for consumers) price wars.
p.s Nice post Lifelong
Abe
Expert Member
Agree 100%, there could even be a slight premium for mobile bandwidth over and above the higher access fee, but definitely not what the current suppliers are asking. R1 per meg etc is total rubbish.