Sharks Supporters Thread

[Pixual]

I just don't think that Bismarck is as good as people give him credit for. So he steals a few balls in the loose. Big deal. They're only worth something when your team actually make them count and right now they aren't exactly inspiring confidence with their back line play, so I think the penalties he gives away outweigh the balls he steals by a considerable points margin.

I haven't seen it from him so often this year, but last year he also turned over a LOT of ball when going into the contact situation. He would go in very high and try to use his strength to run though the tacklers, invariably falling in such a way that the ball could not be won back by the supporting players. Quite often he would give away a penalty for holding on.

Yes, I've had my eye on how he plays for a while and to be blunt, he doesn't impress me at all. I actually find it amazing that so few other people see these flaws of his.

 

[DJ...]

I just don't think that Bismarck is as good as people give him credit for. So he steals a few balls in the loose. Big deal. They're only worth something when your team actually make them count and right now they aren't exactly inspiring confidence with their back line play, so I think the penalties he gives away outweigh the balls he steals by a considerable points margin.

So you vilify him because he steals balls and the backline cannot convert them into points? Seems fair, definitely...

I haven't seen it from him so often this year, but last year he also turned over a LOT of ball when going into the contact situation. He would go in very high and try to use his strength to run though the tacklers, invariably falling in such a way that the ball could not be won back by the supporting players. Quite often he would give away a penalty for holding on.

In this day and age that is the support play being the problem or one choosing to run into an area with no support. Bissy's role is to run into the defence but the laws require you to place the ball immediately after a tackle, so if there is no support play, the only option is to give away a penalty if you're in a dire position. Luckily though, as you point out, he hasn't been guilty of that of late. In fact he is one of the best ball carriers this country has ever produced...

Yes, I've had my eye on how he plays for a while and to be blunt, he doesn't impress me at all. I actually find it amazing that so few other people see these flaws of his.

Maybe its not a coincidence that you're the only one? Just saying...

 

[Devill]

So you vilify him because he steals balls and the backline cannot convert them into points? Seems fair, definitely...

No, well done to him BUT you need a team strategy. Well done Bissie you stole 6 balls that we know we might score once off but you gave away 4 penalties, two which were kickable and 2 that cost us a combined 45m advantage.

He is good enough to realise that he will either need to play it safer or he must learn to at least hold back on the 50/50 calls when the sharks are in their own 1/4...

In this day and age that is the support play being the problem or one choosing to run into an area with no support. Bissy's role is to run into the defence but the laws require you to place the ball immediately after a tackle, so if there is no support play, the only option is to give away a penalty if you're in a dire position. Luckily though, as you point out, he hasn't been guilty of that of late. In fact he is one of the best ball carriers this country has ever produced...

I agree with you and I have felt that the sharks do not use him well / often enough on attack.

Give him a bit more room and have him hit the line at speed.

Maybe its not a coincidence that you're the only one? Just saying...

Well at the moment Bismarck has not done enough to start for the Boks imo.

 

[DJ...]

Wow. Last year the guy played out of his skin. He's played three games for The Sharks and all of a sudden he's no longer Bok material? Really now?

 

[Pixual]

So you vilify him because he steals balls and the backline cannot convert them into points? Seems fair, definitely...

In this day and age that is the support play being the problem or one choosing to run into an area with no support. Bissy's role is to run into the defence but the laws require you to place the ball immediately after a tackle, so if there is no support play, the only option is to give away a penalty if you're in a dire position. Luckily though, as you point out, he hasn't been guilty of that of late. In fact he is one of the best ball carriers this country has ever produced...

Maybe its not a coincidence that you're the only one? Just saying...

You're not reading what I wrote very well.

"One of the best ball carriers this country has ever produced"? Seriously? Are you on crack? Even Odwa Ndungane carries more ball than he does (and gives away far fewer penalties).

 

[RanzB]

I think it's the combination of the two. He's a fantastic player who needs to learn more discipline.

 

[Pixual]

Wow. Last year the guy played out of his skin. He's played three games for The Sharks and all of a sudden he's no longer Bok material? Really now?

In those 3 games he PERSONALLY gave away 6-10 points per game. Check out the score differences in the first 2 games we lost and then tell me how wonderful he is and how much we need him.

 

[DJ...]

You're not reading what I wrote very well.

"One of the best ball carriers this country has ever produced"? Seriously? Are you on crack? Even Odwa Ndungane carries more ball than he does (and gives away far fewer penalties).

Me, SARU, international players who last year said that he was the most feared man on the bok team, coaches, his team-mates who constantly praise him, most of the country's rugby viewers, commentators, ex-players and sports writers. Yip, we're all on crack...

 

[DJ...]

tell me how wonderful he is and how much we need him.

He's awesome.
We're lucky to have him playing for us...

 

[Devill]

Wow. Last year the guy played out of his skin. He's played three games for The Sharks and all of a sudden he's no longer Bok material? Really now?

Now, now mr DJ go back and read what I said. "At the moment he is not good enough to start for the boks".

Hope that cleared up the confusion

 

[ToxicBunny]

They're trying to open up gaps in the defence and create alternate running lines...

Fair enough, it just doesn't seem to be working for us very well atm thats all.

I'm quite sure he's talking about our backline. Not sure where we've been too deep with the lineout, unless you're talking about the calls to throw beyond the back? In which case that has nothing to do with the hooker (to those giving Bissy schit).

I personally think the guy is awesome, but he could do with sorting out his discipline...

Def talking about the backline and not the lineouts, although we could do a bit of work on that area.

 

[DJ...]

I still don't see why not. He's not giving away any more penalties than he has throughout his entire career and the lineout issues have been (imo) a problem with the calling and the jumpers. If anything he has a far cooler head in the heat of things if you ask me...

 

[DJ...]

Fair enough, it just doesn't seem to be working for us very well atm thats all.

I think the problem has been that our wingers were not getting enough ball and so our backline played a very rushed game. I like the deeper, more attacking game-plan. The last thing you want is a team of runners all standing flat-footed. I also like that JP is playing at centre. I think he will evolve into a great centre but he needs to learn the intricacies of the position. Right now he's trying to play as a third winger in the centre of the field whereas he needs to be creating more play. He's got to change his mindset away from being a permanent finisher to a playmaker/finisher. It's a big risk but I think he's got a good enough set of rugby shoulders on him to get it right...

 

[Pixual]

I think the problem has been that our wingers were not getting enough ball and so our backline played a very rushed game. I like the deeper, more attacking game-plan. The last thing you want is a team of runners all standing flat-footed. I also like that JP is playing at centre. I think he will evolve into a great centre but he needs to learn the intricacies of the position. Right now he's trying to play as a third winger in the centre of the field whereas he needs to be creating more play. He's got to change his mindset away from being a permanent finisher to a playmaker/finisher. It's a big risk but I think he's got a good enough set of rugby shoulders on him to get it right...

Dude, if you don't think that the try he made in the game against the Lions was play-making at its very best then I think we're watching different sports here.

 

[Pixual]

Me, SARU, international players who last year said that he was the most feared man on the bok team, coaches, his team-mates who constantly praise him, most of the country's rugby viewers, commentators, ex-players and sports writers. Yip, we're all on crack...

Well not everybody can belong to MENSA...

 

[Devill]

I still don't see why not. He's not giving away any more penalties than he has throughout his entire career and the lineout issues have been (imo) a problem with the calling and the jumpers. If anything he has a far cooler head in the heat of things if you ask me...

Struass > Bismarck, at the moment.

As far as I can see Struass is doing the same thing as Bismarck just he is a better line out "thrower" and he concedes less penalties. He might not be as effective a "3rd" flanker as Bissie but hookers should do what hooker should do before they take on the role of a flanker (Yes, yes I know there is a dirty joke in there just waiting to be spoken )

 

[PhreeMe]

Struass > Bismarck, at the moment.

As far as I can see Struass is doing the same thing as Bismarck just he is a better line out "thrower" and he concedes less penalties. He might not be as effective a "3rd" flanker as Bissie but hookers should do what hooker should do before they take on the role of a flanker (Yes, yes I know there is a dirty joke in there just waiting to be spoken )

I think we'll be debating this round and round, as we cleary do see Biz differently. What I will say is this... He is penalised for trying to turn the ball over. Normally that would be a Flankers position where he would give away penalties instead, but in this case it just so happens that Biz is the guy doing the 'fetching'. Yes our lineouts are not what they should be, however they are improving. Tell me if I'm wrong here, but (lets assume he knows the calls) the only thing he could do wrong in a lineout would be to throw the ball in skew, or have 2 motions? <- I'm seriously asking you to tell me. What happens next is not his fault.

Devill/Pixual, I understand the concern over the penalties. The first 2 games were tight, but in all fairness, could've been won/lost by a much greater margin. It's just the opportunities converted vs those lost. All that being said, it really seems like he is being bashed for being more than the A class hooker he is. Would I want a guy like Strauss who just bashes the ball up and does little else? Nope.... but again, this is prob why we'll disagree

 

[Devill]

I think we'll be debating this round and round, as we cleary do see Biz differently. What I will say is this... He is penalised for trying to turn the ball over. Normally that would be a Flankers position where he would give away penalties instead, but in this case it just so happens that Biz is the guy doing the 'fetching'. Yes our lineouts are not what they should be, however they are improving. Tell me if I'm wrong here, but (lets assume he knows the calls) the only thing he could do wrong in a lineout would be to throw the ball in skew, or have 2 motions? <- I'm seriously asking you to tell me. What happens next is not his fault.

He could also "over throw" or "under throw". A hooker needs to find his jumpers not the other way around.

Devill/Pixual, I understand the concern over the penalties. The first 2 games were tight, but in all fairness, could've been won/lost by a much greater margin. It's just the opportunities converted vs those lost. All that being said, it really seems like he is being bashed for being more than the A class hooker he is. Would I want a guy like Strauss who just bashes the ball up and does little else? Nope.... but again, this is prob why we'll disagree

IIRC Bismarck has been penalised more than the individual flankers? (I could be wrong).
I would actually like to see the stats, the flankers vs Bismarck: Turnovers, penalties against, first / second at the breakdown.

If it is the case that he is receiving more penalties against him and handeling "the same work load" as the two flankers should he then not perhaps adjust his game?

 

[sand_man]

Biz has been awesome so far this season.

He is doing what Broussow and any good flank does, steal ball at the breakdown. May not be his job but it's an extra dimension of his game most hookers would kill for. Sure he gets penalized on occasion but so do the rest, refs interpretation on the day and in the moment.

The fact that he gets penalized more than most is a credit to him being in a position to make the turnover in the first place.

Defensively he is solid and and in the tight loose he is effective, scrummaging is sound too. Lineouts need to be fixed but the blame must be shared equally between hooker and locks.

Didn't he get MoM on Saturday?

The man is a rock, respect, I'm not his biggest fan, he sometimes appears lead footed to me but he has been destructive so far this season. Turnover ball is gold, GOLD!!!

 

[Albereth]

Struass > Bismarck, at the moment.

As far as I can see Struass is doing the same thing as Bismarck just he is a better line out "thrower" and he concedes less penalties. He might not be as effective a "3rd" flanker as Bissie but hookers should do what hooker should do before they take on the role of a flanker (Yes, yes I know there is a dirty joke in there just waiting to be spoken )

Strauss? The Cheetahs' hooker?

He is crap. All he does is whine while Bismarck just gets on and dominates the game.