Shops refusing to swipe card when chip fails

If u swipe a chip card, it will ask for a pin, however if u swipe it twice u can override the pin facility. U would need to sign a receipt though. This happens with cheque and credit cards. No way of overriding normal debit cards.
 
Need to take this up with your bank in the first instance to check the card and their T's and C's.
Next would be to establish what the deal is PnP has with their service provider for card transactions -- only possible via a complaint from you. I have not seen the same at our local PnP and they definitely do not refuse to allow the card to be swiped instead. Not everyone has a chip card yet btw. My last CC without a chip only expires in July this year. The bank does not automatically replace cards until the expiry date is reached.

A pin is not always requested either. Some payment terminals do, others do not. The older swipe machines generally do not ask for a pin.

It could be a local store specific instruction that is at play here.

Even for clarification reasons, you should proceed with your complaint to PnP.
 
Splinter said:
I must say that this issue of "chip malfunction" has come up very recently for me, and seems to happen continuously these days. What's changed?
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That is a good point. I do not believe the chip card readers are good enough to withstand the continuous insertion and removal of cards over and over again, and that is probably where the failure lies rather than with the chip card itself.

The next possibility is when a card is removed too quickly. The transaction must be complete and the card only removed when the screen says it is safe to do so.

we need someone who maintains these devices to comment.
 
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cr@zydude said:
Can shops refuse to let you swipe your card if the chip fails, and the machine is programmed to accept swipes?


So, at Pick n Pay today I tried to pay for my groceries with my Virgin Money credit card. The chip failed twice, and the machine said to swipe the card. Before I could, it said transaction failed. I thought it was odd, and tried inserting my card again. Again the chip failed, I was about to pay with my Capitec card, when I noticed that the teller was manually cancelling the transaction when the swipe card message came up. I asked her why she was doing that, and she claimed that "you can't swipe a chip card". I explained that the magnetic strip is a fallback for situations like this, but she insisted, and I had her call a supervisor.

Supervisor says that they have been instructed not to allow swiping of chipped cards, due to fraud. When I tried to ask who gave this instruction, and if their merchant agreement allows for it (Pick n Pays are almost all corporate stores now) she relented and let me swipe my card. Transaction went through, after I entered my pin, and off I went.

My questions, has this happened to anyone else, and more importantly, can shops refuse to allow you to swipe your card in a case like this? I'd like to better understand the arrangement before I go full bore with my complaint. Also, sorry to the people I held up at Kenilworth today, but I can't accept a cashier telling my something is impossible when I know that it can be done.

Extra info, for questions people may have. It's a fairly new card, about a year old. It worked yesterday, and I'm nowhere near my limit. The card looks to be in good shape. It's either in my wallet or in a card machine.
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They should actually not allow the swipe because if its fraud then they have to pay.

As for the pin, its probably because its not a credit card ? All debit cards need pins.
 
Nerfherder said:
They should actually not allow the swipe because if its fraud then they have to pay.

As for the pin, its probably because its not a credit card ? All debit cards need pins.
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Can't they just ask for ID? What does their merchant agreement say? If they don't want to follow the agreement their POS machines must be removed.
 
faniebraai said:
nothing, how old is the card?
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I don't believe it's the card. It's fairly new, but what is more informative to me is how all the tellers seem be very used to this now.

Geoff.D said:
That is a good point. I do not believe the chip card readers are good enough to withstand the continuous insertion and removal of cards over and over again, and that is probably where the failure lies rather than with the chip card itself.

The next possibility is when a card is removed too quickly. The transaction must be complete and the card only removed when the screen says it is safe to do so.

we need someone who maintains these devices to comment.
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Agreed. It's more than just coincidence.
 
Chip card failures are due to the fact that the machines, being used frequently and worked hard, are not maintained, nor cleaned.
I have been working with these machines now for some time.. its the way they shove the card in, as well as a lack of proper maintenance.
 
Randy_The_Squirrel said:
Chip card failures are due to the fact that the machines, being used frequently and worked hard, are not maintained, nor cleaned.
I have been working with these machines now for some time.. its the way they shove the card in, as well as a lack of proper maintenance.
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Funnily enough, it seems the way to avoid this malfunction bug (most times) is to actually shove the card in hard.
 
supersunbird said:
Can't they just ask for ID? What does their merchant agreement say? If they don't want to follow the agreement their POS machines must be removed.
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You can't force them to take the risk.... remember its all on them.

I remember a while back that Mastercard was going to start charging extra for fallback transactions. Most places just do it because they want your business....
 
Randy_The_Squirrel said:
Chip card failures are due to the fact that the machines, being used frequently and worked hard, are not maintained, nor cleaned.
I have been working with these machines now for some time.. its the way they shove the card in, as well as a lack of proper maintenance.
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Thanks for confirming!

Splinter said:
Funnily enough, it seems the way to avoid this malfunction bug (most times) is to actually shove the card in hard.
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Now there you go --- modify or abuse iso fixing! Sounds perfectly normal -- definitely the machines

No wonder the move towards "Tap and Go" payment systems.
 
If I was able to tell you what was also behind this... you would also understand. But, you're all clever people, think along the lines of Multichoice and their decoders with the "renowned quality" and you'll get the picture ;)
 
Randy_The_Squirrel said:
If I was able to tell you what was also behind this... you would also understand. But, you're all clever people, think along the lines of Multichoice and their decoders with the "renowned quality" and you'll get the picture ;)
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Funny that you should say that. The first thought that went through my mind is the haphazard way in which MC help centres tell customers to remove and re-insert SC's into decoders always makes me cringe. All you have to do is open a decoder and look at the el cheapo card reader to understand why. In the decoders, the readers are expected to have a card inserted and never ever removed.
 
Was refused to do tap and pay at a engen garage in Port Elizabeth
 
thehuman said:
Was refused to do tap and pay at a engen garage in Port Elizabeth
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Only available at selected outlets displaying the tap and pay/go logo. Personally, worries the hell out of me even though I see the new DC and CC I got this month has the tap and pay logo on it.
 
Geoff.D said:
Only available at selected outlets displaying the tap and pay/go logo. Personally, worries the hell out of me even though I see the new DC and CC I got this month has the tap and pay logo on it.
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Tap and pay logo was shown on terminal.
He told me management forbid them to do that payment method
 
Wonder what happens with persons who have a habit of tapping their CC's on the counter while waiting in a queue? I like the idea of not having to swipe the card or putting it into a card reader but, really not comfortable with the technology at this stage.

But then it is only this time around that I have received cards capable of using "tap and go/pay".
 
At a hardware store paying for paint and the buttons on the terminal were greasy and looked like someone had sneezed on it. I asked the cashier to give me another machine or to clean it. She went ballistic and said I was "trying my thing" whatever that meant. So I asked her to call the owner, who also happens to be the son of a friend. He took one look at the terminal and told her to bin it and go fetch another machine out the strong room, which she did with ill grace and a dirty look. By now there were 8 or 9 people in the queue and one cleverdick asked if I needed a loan cause my card had failed. So I showed him the dirty card machine and they all looked disgustedly at it.

I doubt these machines get cleaned from one day to the next, judging from the dirt next to the buttons
 
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