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Question of the Day: Will you be subscribing to the new Disney+ R49 streaming package?
Skype over 3G|HSDPA
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mancombseepgood
Executive Member
Excellent
That's what I need to hear. I am seriously considering cancelling my Telkom ADSL order after waiting more than a month and after they missed 4 appointments to install. I will go with 3G... not to find a handset / router / data card that supports future technologies...
bismay said:
That's what I need to hear. I am seriously considering cancelling my Telkom ADSL order after waiting more than a month and after they missed 4 appointments to install. I will go with 3G... not to find a handset / router / data card that supports future technologies...
vodacom3g
Vodacom Representative
Got this PM from EdRobinson, but as it's a general interest question, I'll post an answer here:
"Is it legal to use VOIP on Vodacom 3g? Is it throttled?"
It is perfectly legal to use VoIP on the Vodacom 3G network. When the initial data rates were lodged with ICASA, a specific tariff of R10/Mb was lodged for voice. However, this is not implemented and currently yo pay normal data rates for any protocol you might want to use, including P2P.
There is no port shaping or throttling of any protocols on the network including voice. It's an open, shared medium and all protocols get equal access to the network.
Some ICMP and routing protocols are being blocked but this is done to protect you from being attacked or scanned.
"Is it legal to use VOIP on Vodacom 3g? Is it throttled?"
It is perfectly legal to use VoIP on the Vodacom 3G network. When the initial data rates were lodged with ICASA, a specific tariff of R10/Mb was lodged for voice. However, this is not implemented and currently yo pay normal data rates for any protocol you might want to use, including P2P.
There is no port shaping or throttling of any protocols on the network including voice. It's an open, shared medium and all protocols get equal access to the network.
Some ICMP and routing protocols are being blocked but this is done to protect you from being attacked or scanned.
vodacom3g
Vodacom Representative
bismay said:
Local or international?
What is the general usage trend, i.e. do you mostly use VoIP for local or international calls?
mancombseepgood
Executive Member
International
Don't worry Vodacom... I think most people use it for intl. SA VOIP prices negate using it for local (except maybe long dist. land line). Mainly cos of charges to VoIP sp's i suspect.
vodacom3g said:
Don't worry Vodacom... I think most people use it for intl. SA VOIP prices negate using it for local (except maybe long dist. land line). Mainly cos of charges to VoIP sp's i suspect.
vodacom3g
Vodacom Representative
EdRobinson said:
Not worried
more interrested in usage patterns. If we can determine how users would like to use VoIP, we can start building solutions.I suspect it to be 80-90% international.
It's going to be quite a while yet before you'll get quality of service on IP-based solutions but this is mostly negated by costs on international calls.
vodacom3g
Vodacom Representative
A VoIP call does take more raw bandwidth than a normal circuit-switched call. I've seen Skype using 40Kb/s+ while a good quality CS call is less than 15Kb/s. But this is not the main issue with VoIP at the moment.
It's more to do with quality, or rather, garuanteed QoS. A normal voice call gets allocated a fixed amount of bandwidth via CS, this gives a fixed quality. The network is finely tuned to deliver the best quality over this type of link.
IP was designed as a data protocol, where issues like varying latency, bumpy throughput and even the sequence of packets aren't that important.
These same factors are killers for voice quality. So, till we seen end-to-end QoS on IP, VoIP will stay a specialist application. In the interim sections of carrier networks (where QoS can be controlled) will migrate over to VoIP.
It's more to do with quality, or rather, garuanteed QoS. A normal voice call gets allocated a fixed amount of bandwidth via CS, this gives a fixed quality. The network is finely tuned to deliver the best quality over this type of link.
IP was designed as a data protocol, where issues like varying latency, bumpy throughput and even the sequence of packets aren't that important.
These same factors are killers for voice quality. So, till we seen end-to-end QoS on IP, VoIP will stay a specialist application. In the interim sections of carrier networks (where QoS can be controlled) will migrate over to VoIP.
QoS is definitely the biggest thing holding VoIP back. And that is why it is not a mature enough technology to be used as a primary network.
That being said i must disagree with you regarding the bandwidth used. Although some of the SIP based VoIP protocols may use as much as 40kB/s... in my experience Skype can squeeze itself into as little as 6kB/s and when you do the maths of that data speed on a R2/MB rate (ie not even any data bundles) it works out favourably. However - the other side of the call MUST terminate on a cheaper network eg ADSL otherwise the break even is bypassed.
That being said i must disagree with you regarding the bandwidth used. Although some of the SIP based VoIP protocols may use as much as 40kB/s... in my experience Skype can squeeze itself into as little as 6kB/s and when you do the maths of that data speed on a R2/MB rate (ie not even any data bundles) it works out favourably. However - the other side of the call MUST terminate on a cheaper network eg ADSL otherwise the break even is bypassed.
The assumptions in this thread just astound me:
Who are these people - that can set costs of R10 per meg - with seemingly no regard to market forces or market demand - or even simple need. The simplicity of wanting to provide excellent service at an excellent price - R10 a meg - or even R2meg is not an excellent price - it is the usual ripoff.
At R10meg or R2meg what has this got to do with users - zero or very few users. Why do these companies charge these amounts when more users equates with more profits - even if individual users themselves are perhaps less profitable.
So to use Skype - a supposed dirt cheap internet service - will cost more than a normal voice call - this exactly shows how wacky our call billing is in this country - what is going on?
Who are these people - that can set costs of R10 per meg - with seemingly no regard to market forces or market demand - or even simple need. The simplicity of wanting to provide excellent service at an excellent price - R10 a meg - or even R2meg is not an excellent price - it is the usual ripoff.
At R10meg or R2meg what has this got to do with users - zero or very few users. Why do these companies charge these amounts when more users equates with more profits - even if individual users themselves are perhaps less profitable.
So to use Skype - a supposed dirt cheap internet service - will cost more than a normal voice call - this exactly shows how wacky our call billing is in this country - what is going on?
mancombseepgood
Executive Member
My only question here
is... what is on paper as far as Vodacom is concerned... have they taken the R10 per meg out of the paperwork... yes, I know they aren't charging it at this stage, but what if I take a two year contract and two months down the line they decide to implement the R10 per meg VOIP charge? Until I'm sure it is no longer written policy, I would feel a little wary... what do you think?
is... what is on paper as far as Vodacom is concerned... have they taken the R10 per meg out of the paperwork... yes, I know they aren't charging it at this stage, but what if I take a two year contract and two months down the line they decide to implement the R10 per meg VOIP charge? Until I'm sure it is no longer written policy, I would feel a little wary... what do you think?
Mams
Senior Member
Did a Skype Out conference call using 3g to two landlines simulataneously.
Excellent call clarity.
Measured the mbs:
Call time was: 11min 46 sec
Uploaded: 3.30mb
Downloaded: 1.60mb
= total 4.9 mb
Lets call it 5mb divided by 12 min = +/- 430kb per min
and in cost = @ R2 per mb > 84c per min
and at 60c per mb > 25c per min
In my case its 80c per mb so 34c per min so my call cost was about R4-00 to Vodacom plus my Skype Out costs...not bad
Now when per mb rates drop, as we hope they will, then we will be really seeing good use of Voip
Excellent call clarity.
Measured the mbs:
Call time was: 11min 46 sec
Uploaded: 3.30mb
Downloaded: 1.60mb
= total 4.9 mb
Lets call it 5mb divided by 12 min = +/- 430kb per min
and in cost = @ R2 per mb > 84c per min
and at 60c per mb > 25c per min
In my case its 80c per mb so 34c per min so my call cost was about R4-00 to Vodacom plus my Skype Out costs...not bad
Now when per mb rates drop, as we hope they will, then we will be really seeing good use of Voip
SKYPE works for me.....
I live on a yacht in Mossel Bay and as such do not have a land line. I have a cell phone and a Vodafone 3G/GPRS Data Card.
My daughter lives in the USA and we regularly chat vis Skype - computer to computer.
There is a delay sometimes but this is ok for me - at least I can chat to my daughter for reasonable costings!!
Regards,
Errol
====================
I live on a yacht in Mossel Bay and as such do not have a land line. I have a cell phone and a Vodafone 3G/GPRS Data Card.
My daughter lives in the USA and we regularly chat vis Skype - computer to computer.
There is a delay sometimes but this is ok for me - at least I can chat to my daughter for reasonable costings!!
Regards,
Errol
====================
Nánfeirén
Active Member
Skype & i-mate K-JAM
any other k-jammers using Skype? I tried mine last night, managed to connect and heard the other party loud and clear, but he could barely hear me, very poor quality on his side. All other applications on my phone were shut down, only Skype running.
Any ideas how to fix this?
any other k-jammers using Skype? I tried mine last night, managed to connect and heard the other party loud and clear, but he could barely hear me, very poor quality on his side. All other applications on my phone were shut down, only Skype running.
Any ideas how to fix this?
ajax
Executive Member
I am the Thread Resurrector
Just made my 1st Skype call over 3G.
Called a friend in Somerset West. Quality was very good. I had very nice chat.
Anyone know how the call is routed? First to USA and back, or is there a "router" or something in SA?
Just made my 1st Skype call over 3G.
Called a friend in Somerset West. Quality was very good. I had very nice chat.
Anyone know how the call is routed? First to USA and back, or is there a "router" or something in SA?
ajax
Executive Member
ic said:
Vodacom's bandwidth is unshaped and unprioritised, I presume?
vodacom3g
Vodacom Representative
ajax said:
Correct.
Skype routing is a best-effort point-to-point affair, i.e. if there was no firewalling between the two nodes and both IP's were directly routable, they would connect directly to each other. This would give the best possible connection.
When ports are firewalled or NAT is implemented in some cases, you need 'external' help to complete the call. These are the so-called 'supernodes' that act as Skype routers. The two parties both connect to the supernode (somewhere on the internet) and this system then passes the packets between the two clients. This obviously introduces extra latencies.