So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish

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Abe

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Mods, this post is in the ADSL ISP discussions for a reason. Please leave it here as it pertains to the ISP's.

It seems really strange to me that people who were slating MWeb (a company that has done nothing but rip off their clients for the last 5/10 years) up until a few weeks back are happy to use them when they come out with a "special" deal that allows those same people to hammer the internet downloading their pirate games, songs and movies which they don't want to pay for. They are happy to switch off AH at the drop of a hat after all the good that AH has done recently towards improving matters. These people make snide comments about WA despite all of the good WA has done for this community and for ADSL in SA over the past years. The 30GB deals a while back, the first company to introduce prepaid, the free 20GB odd of internet that a lot of us got while they were testing their new tier 1 systems. This all because people didn't get the sort of pricing that they expected WA to give out.

It seems to me that majority of members on mybroadband have forgotten why this forum existed in the first place. To fight against the whole broadband situation in SA. What is the state of play now? People jump as fast as they can to the next "cheapest" product. Anything to save a buck. If a company does not give them what they expect, they slate the company. Despite the fact that others may actually need the type of bundles offered by the company. Not everyone needs substandard internet during the day and unlimited downloads after hours. The majority of smaller businesses and home users have totally different needs.

WA have said that the latest pricing is unsustainable, maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I know their pricing was poor, at least at the higher end. Does that justify the comments? Instead of waiting to see what the situation is 3 months down the line, we get people throwing off nasty comments at every chance they get. MWeb have spent the last 5 years ripping off people and probably using that same dirty money to pay off their whole Tier 1 infrastructure. No one has even waited to see what their "solution" will be like when put under strain.

If you want to sleep with the devil, be my guest. I will personally wait and see what happens.

Now to the whole point of this post. Enjoy the new "spirit" on the forums, I doubt I will be around much any more. Telkom has just announced that they have uncapped plans, despite the posts here to the contrary, I can just see a whole bunch of you running off to them if they offer even R20 a month off the MWeb price. Threads about loyalty to ones self seem to forget the past and only concentrate on the present. The new member mantra is "what do I get out of it now" instead of looking out for the community and the future and remembering what companies did in the past.

In the words of Douglas Adams, So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.
 
Totally agree with you, it's staggering how many people here just jump ship as soon as an ISP offers something for R5 less than the last isp. :wtf: Absolutely no loyalty any more, just people looking out for the next best thing. It's the main thing that irritates me about this forum. :mad:
 
Just a side note, this isn't R5 less than the last ship, this is R1000 less than the last ship.
 
I haven't jump ship or moved from Telkom, but I have checked out options? I have added Afrihost as part of my package?

I have said that I will wait for Telkom to make a move within the next few months as I do believe they will. I will have to decide if that offer, if it comes will be good enough?

But, life is all about choices? Do you think there is much loyalty to the customer from business side? In general, I do not think so. After all the nice PR or flashy ads, there is one common goal - making a buck, and a lot of it thank you.

It is a good value to have, but times have changed. I love the idea of fair-play and loyalty, but I don't think that there is much room for it in business nowadays. People almost always buy a bargain if I sell something. Bad idea if you make a living of selling a product.

It seems stupid thou to hold out for something if you are paying an arm and a leg for something and somebody else is offering the same product for less? Surely that form of loyalty can't be justified?

Will you buy a house through a bank with their interest rate at 30%, but you support them because you have been with them for donkey years and not go through another bank that would charge you 8.5% interest?

Loyalty yes, but some common sense needed as well?
 
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I'm waiting personally, much ado about nothing all this emotional stuff. I just want internet that does the job it's supposed to do. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
It is because of what WA did in the past that makes their head-buried-in-the-sand attitude of today so incomprehensible. I am a WA client. I want to continue being a WA client, but I cannot afford to pay two or three times more than the next person for that privilege. Paying ten or twenty percent above the odds for the sake of loyalty and respect is not a problem to most of us, but there is now such a massive gulf between WA's prices and their competition that nature has to take its course.

We can't run their company for them. There have been huge wholesale price reductions over the past 18 months. If they are getting a bad rap for not passing these savings onto their clients, as other ISPs have done, then they only have themselves to blame. And only they can remedy the situation.

Its competition, Abe. And competition is good. We all absolutely need it. So does WA.
 
Just a question as an addendum: A lot of WA clients did stay with them out of loyalty through the latter part of last year and up until their February announcement. How was that loyalty repaid?

Loyalty is a two way street.
 
I wasn't going to post anything more here but saw the comments just before I shut down. I am not unhappy with competition. That is good but there are three things that are bugging me:

1) The nasty, and IMHO, unnecessary, ongoing snide comments against WA. By all means sign up with someone else if you are not happy and leave it at that, but no need to take it further.
2) How people are willing to put their scruples and conscience aside and sign up with MWeb after all they have done in the past.
3) This ongoing jumping at the lowest price, regardless of who is offering it. I am not saying stay with WA. I personally have signed up for an AH account because the price difference is too much. What I am not going to do is switch almost weekly, especially considering who is offering the deal. I will stick with my existing provider and wait and see what they have to offer. The constant switching is going to turn this business into one where there is little or no customer service, just so the companies can undercut the next guy and that is not good for the industry.
 
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I could not agree more. But don't fool yourself into thinking this is new, you just have to look back at the past 2 years of topics, many of which end up deliberately going the "don't show loyalty, don't sign up for contracts, move as soon as things are cheaper" route, I've been here since nearly the forums inception and have had the "privilege" of being able to see over the years how it's gone downhill as it's grown.

Almost 5 years ago, when I started my position at WA (FYI: I no longer work there, and what I say here are my personal feelings and not theirs) and we were rolling out our SAIX ADSL and the 30GB for R199 (and if I recall we dropped it to R99?) products, this forum was all about working WITH the ISP instead of against them. The community felt it important to get involved, to learn about what's happening, to have their say and also listen to those who knew what they were talking about (ie. the ISP). That's all gone, and has been for a long time, everyone now thinks they know how to run an ISP, yet they continue to display how absolutely ignorant of the realities of running such a business (especially in South Africa) they are.

Back then, yes, we used to feel that catering to MyBB was a lot of work, but is also was very rewarding and gave us great insight into what the customers wanted, plus, since we were a company largely catering to "those in the know", and less "average user" it was a good target market for us.

However, as time went on my personal feelings for this forum began to sour, it became more and more obvious that things were taking a turn for the worse and the noise was far outweighing any thoughtful or coherent conversation, customers no longer displayed loyalty to ANY ISP (let alone WA), the amount of resources that had to be dedicated to managing arguments and ignorance were (in my mind) beginning to far outweigh the benefits the forum provided, and I frequently lobbied with the powers that be that WA cut its ties to this forum, still engaging through official PR channels, but putting and end to the reliance on maintaining goodwill in an exceedingly critical and hostile environment.

Fortunately for you guys however, WA still continues to see this forum being useful, and has made it very clear they wish to continue the relationship they've cultivated over the years, so seriously, you should be lucky that they cater to you guys with low-price specials that their other customers (let alone employees) don't get. Even if those particular specials aren't something you're wanting, someone does.

The attitude shown in February when WA announced their pricing was absolutely DISGUSTING, with personal (and in many cases nasty) insults targeting employees and overall childish behavior throughout. Behavior like that only further cements my belief that this forum has ceased to be a place where ISP's and consumers can hold mutual and beneficial dialogue and more of a place where people can just spout their ignorance and nonsense. I think they made a mistake announcing that particular pricing to MyBB, since it wasn't nearly on-par with what MyBB members were enjoying from other ISP's from a data perspective (which is really what the MyBB users care about), but I'm certainly not going to sit and gnash my teeth, shake my fist and foam at the mouth like lots of people did.

I know of many ISP's who deliberately do not communicate with MyBB, they do not talk on these forums, they do not advertise on MyBB, they don't supply news directly to MyBB, they want absolutely NOTHING to do with this forum, and it's because they don't see the use of marketing here. Their businesses haven't crumbled due to a lack of support from this forum, in fact they do fine, and will likely continue to do fine, and (more importantly) experience less stress. There's no money to be had and there are no customers here, just headaches and arguments. Why spend thousands and thousands of rands on adverts and marketing to get a couple of customers who will jump ship the second someone comes out spending half what you did and offering a marginally cheaper product? As a business it makes NO sense, and that's what you guys don't get.

Is all lost? Hell no, there are some worthwhile people here on the forum and some worthwhile conversations, but those are rare and few and far between.

If MyBB wants to get back to its roots, to being a place that both consumers and (even more importantly) ISP's welcome and recognise as being a "useful" forum for them to engage in, then some real, tangible changes need to be made in the way things are handled here.

MyBB as it stands reminds me of a pack of hungry chicks, squeaking away, making noise, all vying for the tiniest extra bits of scraps that they can feed off of, their noise having no purpose other than to say "PAY ATTENTION TO ME!", and no sooner are they fed, that they begin squeaking away again, looking for the next meal. Now imagine that being something that happens 24/7/365/FOREVER.

Anyway, that's my little rant for the evening, back to reality.
 
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Agreed - although the problem I have with all of it isn't so much the switching ISPs, but the way that a lot of people are handling it on the forum. Slating companies like WA, etc, who have in the past done nothing but good for broadband in SA, based on the current circumstances is childish.

Oh well, I guess the kiddies will always make sure their voices are heard :)
 
Abe said:
1) The nasty, and IMHO, unnecessary, ongoing snide comments against WA. By all means sign up with someone else if you are not happy and leave it at that, but no need to take it further.
2) How people are willing to put their scruples and conscience aside and sign up with MWeb after all they have done in the past.
Click to expand...

I'm no raving fan of MWeb, but isn't it a bit hypocritical to accuse others of making snide comments against WA, when in almost the same breath you are making snide comments against MWeb?

I don't know what your history is with MWeb. I used them some years ago on ISDN until I was no longer happy with dialup and got a broadband connection. But they were pretty good. They had a 24 hour helpdesk and they sorted out any issues I had. So I don't understand the "scruples and conscience" bit. Are their gigs manufactured in Asian sweatshops?

3) This ongoing jumping at the lowest price, regardless of who is offering it. I am not saying stay with WA. I personally have signed up for an AH account because the price difference is too much. What I am not going to do is switch almost weekly, especially considering who is offering the deal. I will stick with my existing provider and wait and see what they have to offer. The constant switching is going to turn this business into one where there is little or no customer service, just so the companies can undercut the next guy and that is not good for the industry.
Click to expand...

Everyone should do what suits them best. Without people jumping ship and trying new options this forum would never know the quality of all the new services coming online. The idea is to exchange experiences and help each other get the best value for our money. Nothing is served by sitting alone in a lofty tower turning your nose up at everyone.
 
While there's definitely nothing particularly wrong with changing your ISP (especially if you can get the same, or better, at a significantly lower price), it's that there are members on this forum who actively promote jumping ship at the slightest price difference, who actively promote disloyalty and abuse towards providers and who actively promote things like not signing contracts - even if they might result in lower prices for a customer.

This while at the same time nearly DEMANDING that the ISP's they rally against pay them attention, show them (and this forum) loyalty and bend to their every whim.

A little unrealistic I think.
 
You should give examples of this snideness and abuse. Because I haven't seen much that is not justified by WA's own actions and inactions. You say Mweb has ripped people off, but right now WA is ripping people off. The nice thing is, people get to choose.

There have been a lot of comments about WA on this forum, and WA's own forum. But nobody wants to see them fail. Now, they can be really childish and see this feedback as "abuse" or they can be really smart and see it as a wake up call.

One thing is for sure, though, business is business and if you want to stay in business you can't afford to sit on your past laurels and ignore your customers. You have to listen and adapt.
 
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The past is irrelevant we live in the present. What a company did for me 5 years ago matters little to me today. a Business is not my friend or family member who I need/would like to stay loyal to. I will go with is best for me at present. As far as snide comments go about certain companies, most of those have been deserved by their current performances imho.
 
Why should I not change to the cheapest ISP? There is a lot more to the world out there than just internet, every cent I can save is needed elsewhere, with rising costs of petrol, electricity and food, internet takes a back seat. Everybody is not as privileged as the OP and can afford to pay for loyalty.
 
@Abe & Tharaxis: Agree with you. Most times I just don't bother to respond to some of the posts and sit here shaking my head... Running an ISP is not like owning a corner cafe; you cannot change your prices every day just because the supermarket on the other corner has the same product on a special offer!!
 
I will use the package that is the closest to my needs for the lowest possible price.
I am so used to incredibly bad service that I don't even consider service levels anymore.
 
Ah, the "good old days" remembered by the "good old boys"!

It is naive to think that the character of the forum wouldn't change with the influx of new users and the growth in the sector in general. I suppose that there you see no reason for the site redesign either?

There will always be churn in an industry where there is ultimately very little differentiation between providers. Your complaint seems to be based on differentiation between providers that is intangible - stick with provider A because they were "good" to us.

Well that hasn't cut it for a long time. What people learn't in the '80s as companies cut staff in pursuit of the mighty buck was that there was no gold watch waiting at the end of a 25yr stint with the same company anymore. Companies showed that they had no loyalty towards their employees and consumers are now reflecting the same attitude to every company they deal with.

The value in this forum is precisely that the users are mobile across providers. I'm not saying that moving for a R10 price difference is a good thing, but clearly some users do - knowing who those users are and at what price (and other parameter) difference they will move is valuable to an astute company.

What is happening now is that we are not talking about a R10 price difference - we are talking about a >>R1,000 price difference, and the people that are moving are not the "churn" - it is the long term "core" subscribers that make for stable revenue.

What do you think is going to happen when we finally get LLU and Neotel gets to provide your fixed line? Are you going to complain that we should be grateful and stick with Telkom because they spent decades building the copper loop in the first place? That we should not move to a different provider just because their prices are lower?
 
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