Some M$ history...

[PeterCH]

Here's a credible and informative piece on how M$ got to be where they are,
ie not through product superiority but through piggybacking on IBM:

http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1136093&cid=26941575

Since you're probably too young, let me enlighten you. In the late 70's, when PC's began to appear, corporate IT managers were deathly afraid of them. IBM, like AT&T, did an excellent job of selling FUD - "Hey, if you connect one of those PC's, you'll bring down your entire SNA network!". And I'm sure you're quite unaware of the overwhelming market share (90+%) that IBM had in the computing world at the time. But those damn users, tired of the glacial slowness of mainframe application development, slow response times, and especially the lack of a spreadsheet capability, kept demanding a way to connect PC's to their network. So IBM developed the PC, and contracted with M$ to develop DOS. (There is a story, perhaps apocryphal, that Gates offered to sell M$ for some trifling sum - $10 million, I've heard - but IBM, which felt that it would only sell a few thousand PC's, turned him down.)

So now, corporate managers had a PC that was blessed by IBM. They started to buy them. And, as they did, those damn users kept demanding them. So the sheep^HIT managers bought more. By the time Apple introduced the Mac, the PC already had a huge lead because of this tremendous IBM lock in. And when the Mac was introduced, I was working for a company that was developing a PBX controller based on Mac technology. But when we took it to our first prospects, their overwhelming response was "You're not going to run it on that toy, are you?". Since we needed multi-tasking, which DOS didn't offer at the time, we had to build a complete user interface on top of SCO Unix. Then the question we got was "Does it run Lotus 1-2-3?".

Time passed, and the demand for personal computers exploded. (I remember Sir Terry Mathews, billionaire owner of, at various times, Mitel, Newbridge, and March Networks, sneering at it, saying "What executive would want one of those on his desk?" - probably one of the few errors he made in his career.) But again, as the majority of IT managers would only authorise IBM PC's, DOS kept growing. Even when the PC clones arrived, it was a hard sell to IT managers, who were still told by their IBM account reps that connecting clones could bring down their whole network.

Of course, in industries that didn't have massive networks (K-12, arts, advertising, etc.), the Mac did quite well. But when you compare that market to the much larger banking, finance, manufacturing, health care, and government markets - M$ built a huge lead. And that was because they piggybacked on the IBM connection, NOT BECAUSE they were superior.

Here endeth the lesson.

 

[Sackboy]

It's a peculiarly flippant take on the history of the PC. Not to be taken too seriously.

 

[LazyLion]

So why don't they give the macs away for free, for a couple of years, and then they can, like, take over from M$?

 

[Kilgore_Trout_Redux]

That article doesn't sound biased at all.

 

[I am Penguin]

Simple and plain bussiness economics. You call that credible and informative when it comes straight from the mouth of Apple/Mac/OSX AppleSlashGod.com?

Best joke of the year! Wonder what Bill gates would say? Probably something like ""Are you talking about those hippy punk "boozers", the Apple club, that was flunking about while I working me "ass" off, they were losers from the start and still are today. Look at me now"" (BG)

Funny that you should say that, uhm... what is the word? oh yeah.....its coming...astroturf.... you were saying me punting any factual Blu Ray facts and information from a Sony "backed" site is astroturfing. Yet you punt information to try and "discredit" (or whatever you are trying to do) Microsoft from a site backed my no other than? ta da...

tp://apple.slashdot.org/comments.p...3&cid=26941575​

Now sure; I call that Astroturfing or would that be AstroSurfing? Who cares.

Coming from a Apple Mac/OSX fanboi, always bashing Microsoft with cropped up hatred, You want us to read that Astroturf "garbage"? Why. Let me tell you boy, If it was not for clever Bill Gates and Kie, M$ and even IBM would be nothing today. Then those 2 Xp systems, three big screen tv's and redundant Blu ray player/titles of yours would not even exist at all today.

You use the products from the very company you hate so much that you bash them in every thread where you see a M$ connection. The motive, reason and agenda for posting this thread is very clear.

Do yourself a favour and wipe Microsoft out of your life. Kill all their programs and go to Linux or just stay with Mac/OSX.

Oh dear. You cant. Then you would be stuck completely without Microsoft windows XP. I wonder why.

 

[Sackboy]

Simple and plain bussiness economics. You call that credible and informative when it comes straight from the mouth of Apple/Mac/OSX AppleSlashGod.com?

Best joke of the year! Wonder what Bill gates would say? Probably something like ""Are you talking about those hippy punk "boozers", the Apple club, that was flunking about while I working me "ass" off, they were losers from the start and still are today. Look at me now"" (BG)

Funny that you should say that, uhm... what is the word? oh yeah.....its coming...astroturf.... you were saying me punting any factual Blu Ray facts and information from a Sony "backed" site is astroturfing. Yet you punt information to try and "discredit" (or whatever you are trying to do) Microsoft from a site backed my no other than? ta da...

tp://apple.slashdot.org/comments.p...3&cid=26941575​

Now sure; I call that Astroturfing or would that be AstroSurfing? Who cares.

Coming from a Apple Mac/OSX fanboi, always bashing Microsoft with cropped up hatred, You want us to read that Astroturf "garbage"? Why. Let me tell you boy, If it was not for clever Bill Gates and Kie, M$ and even IBM would be nothing today. Then those 2 Xp systems, three big screen tv's and redundant Blu ray player/titles of yours would not even exist at all today.

You use the products from the very company you hate so much that you bash them in every thread where you see a M$ connection. The motive, reason and agenda for posting this thread is very clear.

Do yourself a favour and wipe Microsoft out of your life. Kill all their programs and go to Linux or just stay with Mac/OSX.

Oh dear. You cant. Then you would be stuck completely without Microsoft windows XP. I wonder why.

The problem with Gates and his empire is that he didn't really come up with anything special himself, he borrowed or stole or dominated. That sums up his success really.

 

[I am Penguin]

That article doesn't sound biased at all.

Sour grapes, I mean apples, if you ask me. The bias are clear based on the fact that it comes from AppleSlashGod.com posted by one of their angels.

PS: No comment from Bill Gates was added.

 

[I am Penguin]

The problem with Gates and his empire is that he didn't really come up with anything special himself, he borrowed or stole or dominated. That sums up his success really.

Looks much the same what the ANC are doing? borrowed or stole or dominated.

Bussiness?

 

[PeterCH]

Simple and plain bussiness economics. You call that credible and informative when it comes straight from the mouth of Apple/Mac/OSX AppleSlashGod.com?

Best joke of the year! Wonder what Bill gates would say? Probably something like ""Are you talking about those hippy punk "boozers", the Apple club, that was flunking about while I working me "ass" off, they were losers from the start and still are today. Look at me now"" (BG)

Funny that you should say that, uhm... what is the word? oh yeah.....its coming...astroturf.... you were saying me punting any factual Blu Ray facts and information from a Sony "backed" site is astroturfing. Yet you punt information to try and "discredit" (or whatever you are trying to do) Microsoft from a site backed my no other than? ta da...

tp://apple.slashdot.org/comments.p...3&cid=26941575​

Now sure; I call that Astroturfing or would that be AstroSurfing? Who cares.

Coming from a Apple Mac/OSX fanboi, always bashing Microsoft with cropped up hatred, You want us to read that Astroturf "garbage"? Why. Let me tell you boy, If it was not for clever Bill Gates and Kie, M$ and even IBM would be nothing today. Then those 2 Xp systems, three big screen tv's and redundant Blu ray player/titles of yours would not even exist at all today.

You use the products from the very company you hate so much that you bash them in every thread where you see a M$ connection. The motive, reason and agenda for posting this thread is very clear.

Do yourself a favour and wipe Microsoft out of your life. Kill all their programs and go to Linux or just stay with Mac/OSX.

Oh dear. You cant. Then you would be stuck completely without Microsoft windows XP. I wonder why.

Slashdot is an IT related news aggregator where users can post comments. This is one such comment. You're welcome to join and post there too.
It's not an astroturfing site, they have subdomains for everything. The site is owned by people who are not connected with Apple Corp.

You're the one who's b-tching and moaning all the time about other people. Why don't you try a Linux based OS, Solaris or even Mac OSX?

BTW note how hypocritical Ballmer is in this article. He wants Apple to let people code for the iPhone on non-Apple Mac OSX, yet you can only use Windows to code
for the XBox and Windows. LOL.

BTW also you don't remember it or you weren't alive then, but when OS/2 came out in the mid 90s - it was a more stable product compared to Win95. At the end we got junk Win95
and the better product - which is still used to this day on many ATMs fell into obscurity.

 

[I am Penguin]

Slashdot is an IT related news aggregator where users can post comments. This is one such comment. You're welcome to join and post there too.
It's not an astroturfing site, they have subdomains for everything. The site is owned by people who are not connected with Apple Corp.

You're the one who's b-tching and moaning all the time about other people. Why don't you try a Linux based OS, Solaris or even Mac OSX?

BTW note how hypocritical Ballmer is in this article. He wants Apple to let people code for the iPhone on non-Apple Mac OSX, yet you can only use Windows to code
for the XBox and Windows. LOL.

BTW also you don't remember it or you weren't alive then, but when OS/2 came out in the mid 90s - it was a more stable product compared to Win95. At the end we got junk Win95
and the better product - which is still used to this day on many ATMs fell into obscurity.

Now why did the GOOD and stable product fail against windows 95. LOL. Go's to show. I presume your excuse would be that ALL the consumers was Idiots at the time and Nothing like pricing, availability, company size, trust, ect played a roll and as such, was the deciding factor. I presume you will claim Bill Gates mass hypnotized the Consumers of the West at that time with his lies and advertisement. LOL. Lets talk about what was available then, What was your computer before the introduction of the IBM version PC ? Hmmm When IBM opened up their designs for copy and mass production to all, where was Apple. (What happened to Appricot?) What was the hardware costs of the Apple platform that could run OS2 compared to the IBM PC at the time it was released. Hmmm. Simple bussiness economics. So yeah it fell in obscurity because they could not compete, NOT THEN AND NEITHER TODAY, and the consumers adopted the best available product for the best price at the time, and still today.

 

[ShockG]

slashdot?
LOL... Every piece of FUD about Win7 so far has come from slashdot, no actually even prior to that. XP, Vista etc...

PeterCH do yourself a favor, use what you like when you like, the rest of us are n00bs and you're clearly superior in your Microsoft hatred. Your life is working out well and you're top of the world. Really happy for you. Must be heaven everyday for you.
Now that we've established that Microsoft is funded by blood diamonds, Chinese mafia, south American drug cartels, Al-Qaeda and Russian oil billionaires you have unmasked the greatest conspiracy and evil in the world. To you we owe our thanks, I mean who knows what would have happened if it weren't for you revealing absolute truths to us

Now then I'm going to play Gears Of War 2 on my evil machine. I'll shed a tear while I'm at it for the lives lost in making this game possible.

 

[PeterCH]

Now why did the GOOD and stable product fail against windows 95. LOL. Go's to show. I presume your excuse would be that ALL the consumers was Idiots at the time and Nothing like pricing, availability, company size, trust, ect played a roll and as such, was the deciding factor. I presume you will claim Bill Gates mass hypnotized the Consumers of the West at that time with his lies and advertisement. LOL. Lets talk about what was available then, What was your computer before the introduction of the IBM version PC ? Hmmm When IBM opened up their designs for copy and mass production to all, where was Apple. (What happened to Appricot?) What was the hardware costs of the Apple platform that could run OS2 compared to the IBM PC at the time it was released. Hmmm. Simple bussiness economics. So yeah it fell in obscurity because they could not compete, NOT THEN AND NEITHER TODAY, and the consumers adopted the best available product for the best price at the time, and still today.

OS 2 Warp was technically a superior product to Win9x, the next best thing for consumers was Win2K which wasn't even available for home users, so XP.
Apple was an alternative but as you'll say, a more expensive alternative.
You're probably too young to remember or weren't even alive then. The rest of your post is ad hominem.

The consumer was given what the OEMs gave it and MS cut some nasty deals with them forcing them to sell MS Windoze. For a long time, even now, you couldn't buy a new computer without an operating system. The OEMs could only sell you Windoze or their special status with MS was revoked and they'd have to pay a lot more for Windoze licences - Win9x thru XP. The US DOJ and the European Commission found MS abusing it's Monopoly. MS tried to destroy Apple, even stole the code for Apple Quicktime because their Video for Windoze was pathetically slow while QT played well on 486-class machines - to avoid trial MS agreed to buy shares in Apple and was forced to agree to release future versions of MS Office for Mac. Windoze is full of holes, Vista has only about 40% fewer security issues than XP. Windoze is defective by design:

* the Windows Registry and the convoluted software installation mess related to it,
* the Windows NT/2000/XP Interactive Services flaw opening up shatter attacks,
* a wide open, legacy network architecture that left unnecessary, unsecured ports exposed by default,
* poorly designed network sharing protocols that failed to account for adequate security measures,
* poorly designed administrative messaging protocols that failed to account for adequate security,
* poorly designed email clients that gave untrusted scripts access to spam one’s own contacts unwittingly,
* an integrated web browser architecture that opened untrusted executables by design, and many others.

Not to mention the WGA BS which blocks pirate or copies which fail authentication (from say hardware changes) from being able to download updates
and thus make them prone as botnet operating systems.
Anyway It's a big pity consumers didn't sue the ... of M$ for making such a piece of junk and using their monopoly to force makers to bundle this
garbage with all it's holes for malware. Sorry - it's a PITA to be reminded of the 3rd rate OS - 90% of the world is using but it is only the fault of one company.

Anyway don't attack me personally - that looks like the only thing you know how to do - refute the claims or agree with me, but this forum's TOS prohibit personal insults.

And again, yeah - truth hurts. In the meantime enjoy this ad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVMy0PFr8no&

 

[PeterCH]

slashdot?
LOL... Every piece of FUD about Win7 so far has come from slashdot, no actually even prior to that. XP, Vista etc...

PeterCH do yourself a favor, use what you like when you like, the rest of us are n00bs and you're clearly superior in your Microsoft hatred. Your life is working out well and you're top of the world. Really happy for you. Must be heaven everyday for you.
Now that we've established that Microsoft is funded by blood diamonds, Chinese mafia, south American drug cartels, Al-Qaeda and Russian oil billionaires you have unmasked the greatest conspiracy and evil in the world. To you we owe our thanks, I mean who knows what would have happened if it weren't for you revealing absolute truths to us

Now then I'm going to play Gears Of War 2 on my evil machine. I'll shed a tear while I'm at it for the lives lost in making this game possible.

LOL, what you're so worked up about? Truth hurts?

 

[I am Penguin]

LOL, what you're so worked up about? Truth hurts?

I think idiocracy hurts even more!

 

[PeterCH]

I think idiocracy hurts even more!

Then suffering must surely be your default state of emotion.

Did you enjoy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVMy0PFr8no&

 

[The_Unbeliever]

The Dosfish :

The Dosfish

Long ago, in the days when all disks flopped in the breeze and the writing of words was on a star, the Blue Giant dug for the people the Pea Sea. But he needed a creature who could sail the waters, and would need for support but few rams.

So the Gateskeeper, who was said to be both micro and soft, fashioned a Dosfish, who was small and spry, and could swim the narrow sixteen-bit channel. But the Dosfish was not bright, and could be taught but few tricks. His alphabet had no A's, B's, or Q's, but a mere 640 K's, and the size of his file cabinet was limited by his own fat.

At first the people loved the Dosfish, for he was the only one who could swim the Pea Sea. But the people soon grew tired of commanding his line, and complained that he could neither be dragged or dropped. "Forsooth," they cried, "the Dosfish can do only one job at a time, and of names he knows only eight and three." And many of them left the Pea Sea for good, and went off in search of the Magic Apple.

Although many went, far more stayed, because admittance to the Pea Sea was cheap. So the Gateskeeper studied the Magic Apple, and rested awile in the Parc of the Xer Ox. And he made a Window that could ride on the Dosfish, and do its thinking for it. But the Window was slow, and it would break when the Dosfish got confused. So most people contented themselves with the Dosfish.

Now it came to pass that the Blue Giant came upon the Gateskeeper, and spoke thus: "Come, let us make of ourselves something greater than the Dosfish." The Blue Giant seemed like a humbug, so they called the new creature Oz II.

Now Oz II was smarter than the Dosfish, as most things are. It could drag and drop, and could keep files without becoming fat. But the people cared for it not. So the Blue Giant and the Gateskeeper promised another Oz II, to be called Oz II Too, that could swim fast in the new, 32-bit wide Pea Sea.

Then lo, a strange miracle occurred. Although the Window that rode on the Dosfish was slow, it was pretty, and the third window was the prettiest of all. And the people began to like the third window, and to use it. So the Gateskeeper turned to the Blue Giant and said "Fie on thee, for I need thee not. Keep thy Oz II Too, and I shall make of my Window an Entity that will not need the Dosfish, and will swim in the 32-bit Pea Sea."

Years passed, and the workshops of the Gateskeeper and the Blue Giant were many times overrun by insects. And the people went on using their Dosfish with a Window; even though the Dosfish would from time to time become confused and die, it could always be revived with three fingers. Then there came a day when the Blue Giant let forth his Oz II Too onto the world. The Oz II Too was indeed mighty, and awesome, and required a great ram, and the world was changed not a whit. For the people said "It is indeed great, but we see little application for it." And they were doubtful, because the Blue Giant had met with the Magic Apple, and together they were fashioning a Taligent, and the Taligent was made of objects, and was most pink.

Now the Gateskeeper had grown ambitious, and as he had been ambitious before he grew, he was now more ambitious still. So he protected his Window Entity with great security, and made its net work both in serving and with peers. And the Entity would swim, not in the Pea Sea, but also in the Oceans of Great Risk. "Yea," the Gateskeeper declared, "though my Entity will require a greater ram than Oz II Too, it will be more powerful than a world of Eunuchs.

And so the gateskeeper prepared to unleash his Entity to the world, in all but two cities. For he promised that a greater Window, a greater Entity, and even a greater Dosfish would appear one day in Chicago and Cairo, and it too would be built of objects.

Now the Eunuchs who lived in the Oceans of Great Risk, and who scorned the Pea Sea, began to look upon their world with fear. For the Pea Sea had grown and great ships were sailing in it, the Entity was about to invade their Ocenas, and it was rumored that files would be named in letters greater than eight. And the Eunuchs looked upon the Pea Sea, and many of them thought to immigrate.

Within the Oceans of Great Risk were many Sun Worshippers, and they had wanted to excel, and make their words perfect, and do their jobs as easy as one-two-three. And what's more, many of them no longer wanted to pay for the Risk. So the Sun Lord went to the Pea Sea, and got himself eighty-sixed.

And taking the next step was he of the NextStep, who had given up building his boxes of black. And he proclaimed loudly that he could help anyone make wondrous soft wares, then admitted meekly that only those who know him could use those wares, and he was made of objects, and required the biggest ram of all.

And the people looked out upon the Pea Sea, and they were sore amazed. And sore confused. And sore sore. And that is why, to this day, Ozes, Entities, and Eunuchs battle on the shores of the Pea Sea, but the people still travel on the simple Dosfish.

(C) 1993 Lincoln Spector. All rights reserved.

 

[I am Penguin]

Truth hurts? LOL

There is nothing in your information that even relate to real facts or truth. It's mostly garbage opinions from other alike against Microsoft not unlike your own.

Every company worth is salt will cut deals to become more superior than the other. That is bussiness. Live with it. Its called "Capitalism" not your prefered "Communism". You destroy every related thread with your Ad Hominen information and clear hatred for Microsoft, Sony, DRM, Blu Ray et al. The same you have done to the Blu Ray thread befuzzling it with your persona gripes, own financial position and the world economic woes. If you by now have not grasped that you are getting little support or symphathy for your lone crusade and action against Microsoft et al then you must catch a wake up. SOON.

 

[I am Penguin]

Then suffering must surely be your default state of emotion.

Did you enjoy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVMy0PFr8no&

I'm capped and based on all the other cr@p links you posted I presume not even worth the time.

 

[I am Penguin]

The Dosfish :

Now Oz II was smarter than the Dosfish, as most things are. It could drag and drop, and could keep files without becoming fat. But the people cared for it not. So the Blue Giant and the Gateskeeper promised another Oz II, to be called Oz II Too, that could swim fast in the new, 32-bit wide Pea Sea.

to this day, Ozes, Entities, and Eunuchs battle on the shores of the Pea Sea, but the people still travel on the simple Dosfish

Exactly. Classic!

 

[PeterCH]

Exactly. Classic!

Yeah, the people didn't want drag and drop that's why MS introduced Windoze
and ended DOS entirely ultimately, first hiding it under the new GUI (Win 16 and Win 32). Windoze was a copy of Apple Mac which had numerous Xerox elements. Point being that Apple was ahead of MS and had a fully functional GUI OS while Gates was pitching his Windows 1 Windows Manager to IBM (which BTW did not work - was a demo).

Around the time Win95 was coming along there was an alternative, it was OS2 Warp which BTW still powers many embedded systems - eg ATMS - which are supposed to work and not crash as much as Windoze. OS/2 was more stable and did not run on top of DOS like Win95, it had full 32 bit, pre-emptive multitasking while Win95 retained many 16 bit components making it so that when one application crashed - usually the whole system became unstable.
Anyway I'm speaking from reading reviews at that time and having worked on the software, not just following MS-hate talk. MS has done so much against innovation and destroyed so many good efforts that it's probably the most shameful company around. It amazes me why some people choose to stay ignorant of MS abuses. Remember, "DOS ain't done till Lotus won't run?"