SONA 2015

Bud I suggest you listen to what the DA had to say outside after they walked out.
 
ZCFOutkast said:
Why exactly did the DA walk out?
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They walked out because of police assulting and taking the EFF out. They recognized some of the "security" and knew they were cops.

My feeling is there were no SAPS but executives' security. ANC are smarter than that.
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Police were recognized. I would recommend you get more information rather than working on feelings.
 
My feeling is there were no SAPS but executives' security. ANC are smarter than that.
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Absolutely.

They are so smart they thought they could get away with a signal jammer in the press section.
 
I am so depressed today. I saw some of the foreign diplomats facepalming. The shame, the cringeworthiness!
 
ZCFOutkast said:
But by Thandi Modise saying what she said and then them hesitating for another 15 minutes while asking the same questions they had when they first decided to walk out the initiative was already handed back to the ANC.

Why exactly did the DA walk out? Makes zero sense. They go through such discussions in Parly but never walkout becaus eof uncertainty. Speaker just say will review your questions and respond at the start of the next seating. By saying she can't tell she's bascially covering her back in case they were.
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When is the next JOINT sitting?

The DA did the right thing and that was to accumulated the woes of the co-chairs and House executive. The co-chairs erred in their handling of the EFF tactics. One the first point of privilege they should have called for a vote and then shut down that line of "attack". Insted the co-chairs fudged it.

Then by escalating the situation with their own handling of the questions, they invited the chaos. They hardly gave the ushers an opportunity to negotiate and request the 3 EFF members to leave (only 3 were named) before the co-chairs called in the security forces.

And here the sh*t really hits the fan. There was no threat to life and limb, so why were ARMED forces allowed into the house?

My feeling is there were no SAPS but executives' security. ANC are smarter than that.
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Then why did the chairperson of the NCOP say they were from SAPS? Read/Listen carefully to her last responses. She acknowledged that they were working under the House security for this eventuality.

She answered Malema&EFF but we were stubborn because it was our intention from the beginning. She answered the DA properly but they were not satisfied with the answer and made a meal out of it. Inessence they wre satisfied with the beatings meted out to fellow MPs before?
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Showing your true colours? Are you a local member or a Zim chapter member?

She did not answer the DA properly. They asked for a simple yes or no. Were there members of the police armed and in the House?

The reply has significant implications. The House security report to the Speaker and her executive team. SAPS reports to the ANC-run State, the leader of which was grinning and laughing while seated behind the podium.

How can people blame Chad Le Cloes. At what point exactly did people want Le Clos to walk out? When EFF MPs were being ejected.

So why then was it ok for DA to remain behind, if it's not ok for Le Clos to remain behind too.
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No comment on Le Clos, not his fault.

The DA were correct not to walk out while the EFF were being forcibly evicted. Think about it... why would you miss the opportunity to add the the woes by denying the co-chairs the chance to dig their hole even deeper? The Constitution was trampled on last night and this the DA pointed out to them before walking out.
 
ZCFOutkast said:
But by Thandi Modise saying what she said and then them hesitating for another 15 minutes while asking the same questions they had when they first decided to walk out the initiative was already handed back to the ANC.

Why exactly did the DA walk out? Makes zero sense. They go through such discussions in Parly but never walkout becaus eof uncertainty. Speaker just say will review your questions and respond at the start of the next seating. By saying she can't tell she's bascially covering her back in case they were.

My feeling is there were no SAPS but executives' security. ANC are smarter than that.

She answered Malema&EFF but we were stubborn because it was our intention from the beginning. She answered the DA properly but they were not satisfied with the answer and made a meal out of it. Inessence they wre satisfied with the beatings meted out to fellow MPs before?

How can people blame Chad Le Cloes. At what point exactly did people want Le Clos to walk out? When EFF MPs were being ejected.

So why then was it ok for DA to remain behind, if it's not ok for Le Clos to remain behind too.
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Please tell me why you think your opinion is relevant or has any bearing on reality?
 
I recall hearing Mbete say to the EFF that on 11 March (is that correct?) Zuma will answer their questions when there will be a Q and A session on his speech. I seriously doubt he will give a proper answer then.
 
ZCFOutkast said:
Well done DA? ANC walked into that?

With all due respect guys, it's the DA who walked into the ANC's plan there.

Their impact woul've been greater had they fought with the EFF against those Mbete thugs.

Instead Maimane&his DA were already walking out, when Thandi Modise said "walk out on your flimsy terms then afterwards refrain from saying it was the ANC/Speaker who said leave". At that point Mmusi&everyone in the DA froze and sat down again.

They continued asking useless questions which Thandi Modise replied perfectly I am not able to tell who was a police or not.

Basically, the DA walked out on the basis of uncertainty or lack of clarification, but they didn't walk out when "clarified obvious abuse by gun carrying thugs in parliament" were manhandling men AND WOMEN of the EFF.

What tops it all for me is the fact the Maimane(Leader) and Steenhuisen(Chief Whip) were not ejected for , yet quiet members of the EFF were all kicked out with those who spoke.

That must tell the country something about who the overwhelming majority really fears.

Personally I say the DA walked out for nothing.

After that Zuma had an uninterrupted speech, and in my opinion one of his best ever speeches!

Plenty people appreciated his speech, including that eNCA test audience.

It would;ve been better if DA was there interrupting and asking for "opportunities" to be quantified. Not walking out because of uncertainties that can easily be cleared in future rendering you stupid.
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Ok ..you must have been watching from the koolaid tapped feed. Question asked to the speaker...the security personnel that entered the chamber...where not parliamentary protection , who where they? She could not answer..parliament has its own protection service,..that reports to the Speaker and not to any member of the executive....so that the separation of powers is maintained. If police were instructed to enter parliament ....a key principle of our constitution was violated ... Clearly she did not rehearse an answer for that question...hence the...classic....uhmmm, I have answered the question ...The DA walked out, as the constitution, which the ANC uses as toilet paper these days was violated, and would not be party to it.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Of course it was.

The DA were banking on the EFF doing what they did, and the ANC overreacting and bringing in the police and then trying to hide that fact... The ANC walked RIGHT into it.

Also, the ANC claim to have "won" last night... if they think they won anything, then they're even bigger idiots than i though.
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This is what I think, Julius wanted this display of thuggery in front of the whole nation!
 
ZCFOutkast said:
Well done DA? ANC walked into that?

With all due respect guys, it's the DA who walked into the ANC's plan there.

Their impact woul've been greater had they fought with the EFF against those Mbete thugs.

Instead Maimane&his DA were already walking out, when Thandi Modise said "walk out on your flimsy terms then afterwards refrain from saying it was the ANC/Speaker who said leave". At that point Mmusi&everyone in the DA froze and sat down again.

They continued asking useless questions which Thandi Modise replied perfectly I am not able to tell who was a police or not.

Basically, the DA walked out on the basis of uncertainty or lack of clarification, but they didn't walk out when "clarified obvious abuse by gun carrying thugs in parliament" were manhandling men AND WOMEN of the EFF.

What tops it all for me is the fact the Maimane(Leader) and Steenhuisen(Chief Whip) were not ejected for , yet quiet members of the EFF were all kicked out with those who spoke.

That must tell the country something about who the overwhelming majority really fears.

Personally I say the DA walked out for nothing.

After that Zuma had an uninterrupted speech, and in my opinion one of his best ever speeches!

Plenty people appreciated his speech, including that eNCA test audience.

It would;ve been better if DA was there interrupting and asking for "opportunities" to be quantified. Not walking out because of uncertainties that can easily be cleared in future rendering you stupid.
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I almost puked in my mouth reading this. :sick:
 
phaktza said:
This is what I think, Julius wanted this display of thuggery in front of the whole nation!
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At least he played by the rules.

If either of the co-chairs or the ANC knew the rules they could have nipped the EFF's tactics in the bud within 2 minutes.
 
moreover armed forces entered the House while the House was SITTING

Unless absolutely impossible to due under the circumstances the Speaker adjourns the assembly when circumstances arise which make the orderly business of the House impossible - it can be done as simply as the Speaker rising and bowing at the House. It would be far more respectful to the House for the Speaker to on ordering that somebody vacate the House to adjourn until the person is outside of the confines of the House.
 
Paul Hjul said:
moreover armed forces entered the House while the House was SITTING

Unless absolutely impossible to due under the circumstances the Speaker adjourns the assembly when circumstances arise which make the orderly business of the House impossible - it can be done as simply as the Speaker rising and bowing at the House. It would be far more respectful to the House for the Speaker to on ordering that somebody vacate the House to adjourn until the person is outside of the confines of the House.
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Don't you come here with your colonialist tendencies! :D
 
MickeyD said:
There were NO winners last night, only LOSERS.

And the biggest loser of all last night is our country, South Africa.
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I disagree. Last night showed the ruling elite they may do as they please....but there will be those that will not sit idly by and say and do nothing. Was a hell of a WIN in my opinion.

And to hell with decorum and all that. Decorum would be to answer simple questions instead of ducking and diving like your life depends on it.
 
1. If people expected Le Clos to walk out right there and there then they should expect the same DA
2. There was no reason for the DA to hesitate. They should have walked out the first time they decided to do so. Being stubborn but not ejected proves that there is one law for DA(not dragged out) and another for EFF (all dragged out bruised).

I heard perfectly clear what Modise and later Radebe said. Bottomline is none of that can be proven, and it was stupid to demand such an answer, while holding SONA speech to ransom, when you know you can walk out approach one of them and demand identification of their stus - saps/parly/pres, then walk back in. Or get an answer at the house's next sitting. Simple! DA was just being petty, and they failed to gain cheap point sform that.

Anyway I can already see a lot of people picked that up so I don't have to say anything.

What was said rings true though - unconventional methods which the rule snever anticipated led to these problems, so people should not compalin when unconventional methods are used to reisist. That UCT prof/commentator was right. Fine line between eveything and DA tried very hard to overstate a simple thing.

EFF are the ttrue winners!
 
yebocan said:
Ok ..you must have been watching from the koolaid tapped feed. Question asked to the speaker...the security personnel that entered the chamber...where not parliamentary protection , who where they? She could not answer..parliament has its own protection service,..that reports to the Speaker and not to any member of the executive....so that the separation of powers is maintained. If police were instructed to enter parliament ....a key principle of our constitution was violated ... Clearly she did not rehearse an answer for that question...hence the...classic....uhmmm, I have answered the question ...The DA walked out, as the constitution, which the ANC uses as toilet paper these days was violated, and would not be party to it.
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Her words, as I recall them were:
I asked the Usher of the Black Rod, then I asked the Parliamentary protection service, then I asked the security forces. I can't tell you from here who belonged to what service.

Firstly, it's a lie - she called PPS before she asked the usher to remove Malema.
She repeatedly addressed him as Julius, not Honourable Malema

And then, escalating from PPS to security forces - that's either the police or army.

If there were no police, she could very easily have answered Maimane's question. However, there were police and she knew it, and she was savvy enough not to blatantly lie in answer to the question, so she evaded it.
 
It's a pity none of you are asking yourselves why Maimane & Steenhuisen were not removed(escorted) or asked to leave.
 
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