SONA 2015

xeslaro said:
Shedding your pants in public is lewd, don't conflate media attention you may garner akin to politicking - try, at least, to delineate absurdity from political aims... Your hypothesis is both silly and fallacious..
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I couldn't have said it better myself!
 
Garyvdh said:
I don't mind watching the EFF at work, but I will never support them. Their platform is totally opposed to the ideals of good democracy and lawfulness, and they have previously made statements that are unfriendly and threatening to people of other races. They are also quite willing to break the law themselves despite all this current bleating about obeying the rules.
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Well it seems the DA are going rogue too :D http://www.bdlive.co.za/opinion/editorials/2015/02/13/editorial-chaos-sign-of-sas-democratic-decline
The departure of the Democratic Alliance (DA) from the chamber, despite the spin that will be put on this, reduced what should be a gathering of representatives of the people into a partisan affair.

It is characteristic of SA’s laissez faire approach to the rule of law to propose that the DA should have left the question alone for the sake of politeness, but that would be wrong.
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Dubes said:
In politics the old adage of any publicity being good publicity hardly holds. The manner in which the EFF do things does not appeal to the more intellectual. I'd rather see my politicians intelligently debate than chant "payback the money"...
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I wonder who's been chanting more lately EFF or DA?

"Give us the tapes"; "Bring back the signal"; "Mbete must go"; "Zuma must go"

I though GvO summed it up perfectly when he said DA were going all rowdy with each passing sitting.
 
ZCFOutkast said:
Well it seems the DA are going rogue too :D http://www.bdlive.co.za/opinion/editorials/2015/02/13/editorial-chaos-sign-of-sas-democratic-decline: "reduced what should be a gathering of representatives of the people into a partisan affair"
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The ANC staying to protect Zuma turned the gathering into a partisan affair

The ANC refusing to remove a corrupt and treasonous Speaker who has declared war on Parliament is the height of partisan corruption
Once Mbete resigns or is removed the partisan debate can be had in earnest
 
d7e7r7 said:
Posted in infographics thread as well but it's fitting here...

SONA SPEECHES: HOW COMPLEX OR SIMPLE ARE THEY? - http://ewn.co.za/Media/2015/02/13/Sona-speeches-how-complex-or-simple-are-they

-%2fmedia%2fA35B5429AE6D45C88AF6B29A84FBCEF2.ashx%3fas%3d1%26h%3d1893%26w%3d700
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Someone has not done their homework: the F-K score is a range from 0-100 where a higher number means that it is easier understood. A F-K score of 0-30 means it is graduate material and the Gunning-Fog indicates the amount of years of formal education. So if G-F is 12.6, this means someone with 12.6 years of education is able to understand it. The F-K score of 12 is graduate level. Your normal newspapers would have a score of 60+.
 
ZCFOutkast said:
I wonder who's been chanting more lately EFF or DA?

"Give us the tapes"; "Bring back the signal"; "Mbete must go"; "Zuma must go"

I though GvO summed it up perfectly when he said DA were going all rowdy with each passing sitting.
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Wouldn't you? The opposition as a whole are getting irritated with the coward who won't show up to answer questions. Whether it is politically motivated or just in the name of good, getting no. 1 to admit what a fraud he is an have him held accountable along with the anc crooks who put him there is a win for the people of the country. I have no problem with the anc running this country, but in its current state with corruption at an all time high under the watch of zoom
 
CASAC(Council for the Advancement of the South African Constitution) has its take
https://www.facebook.com/CASACZA/posts/819995168060414

CASAC MEDIA STATEMENT ON CHAOS IN PARLIAMENT

A new low for democratic South Africa

Friday, 13 February 2015

Last night’s State of the Nation Address was a very sad day for South Africa’s democracy.

Political leaders in Parliament need to urgently reflect on the implications, both political and constitutional of what occurred during the Joint Sitting of Parliament. They need to account for what transpired and provide solutions so that ordinary people can be assured that our democratic foundations are not being permanently eroded.

CASAC believes that there were a number of Constitutional transgressions that demand immediate attention.

1. The cellphone signal in parliament should not have been scrambled and disabled, as it breached the constitutionally-protected rights to receive and impart information (guaranteed in sections 16 and 32 of the Constitution).

An immediate investigation should be launched to determine who was responsible for ordering the blocking or scrambling of the signal, and on what basis such an order was given.

2. By seeking to disrupt the State of the Nation Address, opposition MPs from the Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF) abused parliamentary rules and convention to the point where the Constitutional rights of other MPs and the President were infringed.

While it is certainly important to recognize that the rights to free speech and the privileges of all MPs must be carefully protected - on the basis that MPs are elected by the people to represent the views and interests of the electorate as they see fit - so it follows that this principle applies across the House to all MPs.

3. The State of Nation Address is the occasion at which the President, as head of the national executive, reports to Parliament on his government’s programme. To deny the President this opportunity is to undermine the accountability function of Parliament. If the President is unable to set out the programme of his Government, Parliament will have no basis on which to subsequently hold him to account.

4. CASAC also recognizes, however, that the President has not yet provided adequate answers to questions that were posed to him in August last year relating to the Public Protector’s findings and remedial action on Nkandla. This, too, represents a failure in constitutional accountability that must be urgently rectified by the President.

5. The identity of the security officials that entered the Chamber to remove the EFF MPs from the chamber must be determined as a matter of great urgency. If any of the officials were from police or state security, then this represents a serious transgression of parliamentary sovereignty, since The Powers Privileges and Immunities of Parliament and Provincial Legislatures Act of 2004 makes it clear that police or other public order forces may only enter Parliament if there is an ‘imminent danger’ to life or property. The response of the security officials would appear to be entirely disproportionate to the problem of removing recalcitrant MPs.

The source of the decision to order the deployment of such non-parliamentary security officials must also be determined as soon as possible, and the terms of engagement of such forces urgently clarified within the legal framework.

6. The authority for ordering that all EFF MPs be removed from the Chamber must be also examined. While it would appear that the party as a whole was intent on disrupting SONA, at the time that the Speaker made her ruling, only 4 EFF MPs had actually spoken.

Now is the time for calm, principled leadership that respects the Constitution values and principles, and is able to rebuild the dignity of parliament.

Enquiries:
Lawson Naidoo
073 158 5736
[email protected]
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Part in bold, two parties used Rule 14 - EFF & DA. The fact that only EFF alone is accused of applying unconstitutional practice in this regard means one of two things - the DA is too irrelevant to be considered or CASAC are being racist.

Dali Mpofu agrees https://twitter.com/AdvDali_Mpofu/status/566511759234957312
 
All of this adds further weight to my suspicion - ANC and DA could really be working together. Innocent EFF MPS were ejected, yet Maimane & Steenhuisen made noise but nothing is done to them. Later Maimane says EFF should have left voluntarily as the instructioin they were given to leave was appropriate, and only questions the indentity of those who who abused the EFF.
 
ZCFOutkast said:
All of this adds further weight to my suspicion - ANC and DA could really be working together. Innocent EFF MPS were ejected, yet Maimane & Steenhuisen made noise but nothing is done to them. Later Maimane says EFF should have left voluntarily as the instructioin they were given to leave was appropriate, and only questions the indentity of those who who abused the EFF.
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The EFF were stupid.

If they really wanted to "disrupt" SONA then each MP should have left the House ONLY after they were named and requested to leave. Think about it...

MP1 raises a PoO and eventually gets ejected.

JayZee starts his speech.

MP2 raises a PoO and eventually gets ejected.

JayZee starts his speech.

MP3 raises a PoO and eventually gets ejected.

JayZee starts his speech.

MP4 raises a PoO and eventually gets ejected.

JayZee starts his speech.

MP5 raises a PoO and eventually gets ejected.

JayZee starts his speech.

MP6 raises a PoO and eventually gets ejected.

JayZee starts his speech.

MP7 raises a PoO and eventually gets ejected.

JayZee starts his speech.

etc etc.... with Julius being last.

Now THAT would be a disruption.
 
MickeyD said:
Because one is what Dali tweeted, the other is you penning your delusions of grandeur.
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I meant how does the statement cite the EFF and not the DA? Sounds lik emore than just a coincidence to me. You cannot be in the legal field and make such a glaring oversight by accident. It was very deliberate.
 
ZCFOutkast said:
I meant how does the statement cite the EFF and not the DA? Sounds lik emore than just a coincidence to me. You cannot be in the legal field and make such a glaring oversight by accident. It was very deliberate.
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Until now I'd never even heard of this council of clowns... so why should I bother interpreting their opinion?
 
MickeyD said:
The EFF were stupid.

If they really wanted to "disrupt" SONA then each MP should have left the House ONLY after they were named and requested to leave. Think about it...

MP1 raises a PoO and eventually gets ejected.

JayZee starts his speech.

MP7 raises a PoO and eventually gets ejected.

JayZee starts his speech.

etc etc....

Now THAT would be a disruption.
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For "Point of Order" put "Point of Privilege" because that's the only thing that was technically inarguable. Anyway that was my initial thought about how this would pan out and I said as much but aving thought about it, it would in the end have been analysed as a joke and a childish tendency by the EFF which many people would've criticised as turning Parliament&SONA into a circus. So I commend the CCT for deciding otherwise. The desired impact was achieved without inviting a tag of lack of seriousness directed at the party.
 
Coming back to the council of ambulance chasers you quoted earlier... they are missing a glaringly obvious point. JayZee had unfinished business in the House - answering the question put to him last time!
 
MickeyD said:
Until now I'd never even heard of this council of clowns... so why should I bother interpreting their opinion?
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You like doing that!

You should replace Marius Redelinghuys so Mac can have a challenge - apart from our Mbuyiseni Ndlozi! :D

When Mbuyiseni Ndlozi is unavailable we have an excellent Fan Mokoena, who is also a top top African Hollywood actor. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0596350/
 
MickeyD said:
Coming back to the council of ambulance chasers you quoted earlier... they are missing a glaringly obvious point. JayZee had unfinished business in the House - answering the question put to him last time!
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Yah but they've already put a March date for him to answer all those questions, so it would've been silly for them to say that.
 
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