Sovereign Citizens

[video=youtube_share;0gzISrrsGPc]https://youtu.be/0gzISrrsGPc[/video]
 
OrbitalDawn said:
No wonder you're so confused. You think the only political ideology on the right is libertarianism.
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Where did you read that?

What I said is the ideal right wing government is that of a libertarian one.
That doesn't mean it is the best one or only one. Whilst it is a nice ideal, it falls flat on its face when it comes to technical monopolies.

Conservatism, classic liberalism could all be classified as right wing ideologies. Because they all place the individual as being somewhat more important than the state.

The difficulty comes is that most people don't like the extremes between anarchy and totalitarianism. So they pick a side they are more likely to be comfortable with, then pick bits from the other side. This is why you have to look at how political parties act, rather than what they tell everyone.

You take a topic like abortion. It is actually a right wing issue for both sides of the isle.

The reason why there is such a schism in between the Democrats and Republicans on the issue is that the Republicans regard the foetus an individual, equal to the woman thus both are more important than state, and the Democrats doesn't regard the foetus as an individual, thus the woman is more important than the state.
 
konfab said:
Where did you read that?

What I said is the ideal right wing government is that of a libertarian one.
That doesn't mean it is the best one or only one. Whilst it is a nice ideal, it falls flat on its face when it comes to technical monopolies.

Conservatism, classic liberalism could all be classified as right wing ideologies. Because they all place the individual as being somewhat more important than the state.

The difficulty comes is that most people don't like the extremes between anarchy and totalitarianism. So they pick a side they are more likely to be comfortable with, then pick bits from the other side. This is why you have to look at how political parties act, rather than what they tell everyone.

You take a topic like abortion. It is actually a right wing issue for both sides of the isle.

The reason why there is such a schism in between the Democrats and Republicans on the issue is that the Republicans regard the foetus an individual, equal to the woman thus both are more important than state, and the Democrats doesn't regard the foetus as an individual, thus the woman is more important than the state.
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Right, but an "ideal right wing government" is not at all the same thing as what's historically and contemporarily actually been on the right. You can't use what you consider the "ideal right wing government" as the only valid classification and thereby classify Nazism as left wing because it doesn't fit in with your classification. That's just selection bias.

It's fine if that's your political preference, but that doesn't disqualify fascism from the right any more than my distaste for Stalinism would disqualify it from the left.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Right, but an "ideal right wing government" is not at all the same thing as what's historically and contemporarily actually been on the right. You can't use what you consider the "ideal right wing government" as the only valid classification and thereby classify Nazism as left wing because it doesn't fit in with your classification. That's just selection bias.
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That isn't what I am doing.

Do you agree that left wing politics is collectivist or not. If you don't, I am stopping this as you are completely lost.
If you want right wing politics to be "opposite" of left wing politics, then your definition of right wing politics has to be opposite to collectivism, which is individualism.


You take something like the Irish republicans. Technically they were a nationalist organisation, but they also rebelled against the monarchy, but they are classified on Wikipedia as left wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinn_F%C3%A9in#Policy_and_ideology

If nationalism is the ultimate disqualifies for left wing politics as you have repeatedly said, then why haven't you classified the Irish republicanism as right wing, given it was quite happy to commit terrorism on it as well.
 
Nemus said:
[video=youtube_share;0gzISrrsGPc]https://youtu.be/0gzISrrsGPc[/video]
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This guy doesn't seen as stupid as some of the others. He's actually able to form coherent sentences. So now this video means very little without showing the eventual outcome.
 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement
The sovereign citizen movement is a loose grouping of American, Canadian and Australian litigants, commentators, tax protesters, and financial-scheme promoters. Self-described sovereign citizens take the position that they are answerable only to their particular interpretation of the common law and are not subject to any government statutes or proceedings.[1]
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In surveys conducted in 2014 and 2015, representatives of US law-enforcement ranked the risk of terrorism from the sovereign citizen movement higher than the risk from Islamic extremism.[16][17] Sovereign citizens have also been identified as a potential terrorist threat by the New South Wales Police Force in Australia
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Yeah people who don't carry identification is more of a threat than actual terrorist. Lol

Okay also from the wiki. 1 legitimate terrorist and lots of opportunistic tax dodgers.
 
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konfab said:
That isn't what I am doing.

Do you agree that left wing politics is collectivist or not. If you don't, I am stopping this as you are completely lost.
If you want right wing politics to be "opposite" of left wing politics, then your definition of right wing politics has to be opposite to collectivism, which is individualism.


You take something like the Irish republicans. Technically they were a nationalist organisation, but they also rebelled against the monarchy, but they are classified on Wikipedia as left wing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinn_F%C3%A9in#Policy_and_ideology

If nationalism is the ultimate disqualifies for left wing politics as you have repeatedly said, then why haven't you classified the Irish republicanism as right wing, given it was quite happy to commit terrorism on it as well.
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I haven't said that. You're just ignoring everything that you don't like on the right and pretending it isn't actually on the right.

And of course there's overlap, and the overlaps have been growing, making the descriptors less useful and accurate as time goes on. We're a very far way off from the French circumstances that birthed the left/right paradigm.
 
Sovereign citizens. What a load of kack. Don't run to the cops if someone raccoons you during an argument. Oh no sir, you don't recognize them in your sovereignty. TSEK fokkers.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
We're a very far way off from the French circumstances that birthed the left/right paradigm.
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Quite correct, hence why I prefer framing the divide between collectivism and individualism. For me, left/right are simply labels, and describe the history far better.
 
I've seen these types (sovereign citizen) once or twice on YouTube. Not sure how common it is though.

My 2 cents...

A libertarian should understand that stepping on any domain means you must adhere to the contract (vis-a-vis laws) or get the fk off it (Else they're under no obligation to respect your domain in turn). Them's the terms and conditions of having a government else you're simply not allowed to benefit from it (Call the cops lol). And by extension, even things you commit on your own private property needs to exercise caution with regards to indirect impact. People have vested interests in others all over. If you unreasonably conduct anything against anyone's will, not only do you break trust, you should also not complain about the repercussions.
 
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Bobbin said:
I've seen these types (sovereign citizen) once or twice on YouTube. Not sure how common it is though.

My 2 cents...

A libertarian should understand that stepping on any domain means you must adhere to the contract (vis-a-vis laws) or get the fk off it (Else they're under no obligation to respect your domain in turn). Them's the terms and conditions of having a government else you're simply not allowed to benefit from it (Call the cops lol). And by extension, even things you commit on your own private property needs to exercise caution with regards to indirect impact. People have vested interests in others all over. If you unreasonably conduct anything against anyone's will, not only do you break trust, you should also not complain about the repercussions.
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I'm pretty sure most libertarians would feel insulted if they're compared to these crazies ...
 
not sure how it happened, but youtube was throwing up sovereign citizen court cases last night.

this one is a real cracker

 
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