Sovereign Citizens

[Nemus]

Not sure if this is the correct category, but here's to hoping.

Anyway, so I have recently started watching cops and judges handle sovereign citizens videos on the tube.

Do these people actually believe in the @#$# they talk, and that they are truly not expected to follow the laws of their country/state? I'm sorry, but I don't think anyone in their right mind could believe what these "not a person, but individuals" claim to stand for.

I do enjoy their windows being knocked in though :twisted:

 

[konfab]

I routinely re-watch those compilation vids of sovereign citizens getting owned.

This is my favorite one:
[video=youtube;QCozh_vbYdM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCozh_vbYdM[/video]

HELP, CALL THE POLICE!!
Sir, we are the police.


This group of freaks is actually the best example of right wing extremism, as they are taking the concept of personal liberty to the extreme. The neo-nazi's that are the new boogeyman the media is using to scare everyone are simply another branch of left-wing collectivism.

 

[Nemus]

The one clip i watched, the woman was being "assisted" out of her car by the cop, and she starts shouting Rape!
Then she went into (what felt like) a 10 minute lecture on the definition of rape.

 

[Nemus]

They commonly refer to themselves not driving, but traveling. And for traveling, a license is not required!

 

[rietrot]

I haven't seen the video's(will have a look later), but in principle and ideologically I agree with the concept of sovereign citizens and liberty. To me it is almost like an utopian dream of what the world should be like. With the police only protecting that liberty when people can't defend themselves.
These tv shows normally do take it a bit to far though and have an agenda too try and make these people look as stupid as possible.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I haven't seen the video's(will have a look later), but in principle and ideologically I agree with the concept of sovereign citizens and liberty. To me it is almost like an utopian dream of what the world should be like. With the police only protecting that liberty when people can't defend themselves.
These tv shows normally do take it a bit to far though and have an agenda too try and make these people look as stupid as possible.

They are stupid... don't need a tv show or youtube video compilation to show that.

 

[Craig_]

I routinely re-watch those compilation vids of sovereign citizens getting owned.

This is my favorite one:
[video=youtube;QCozh_vbYdM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCozh_vbYdM[/video]

HELP, CALL THE POLICE!!
Sir, we are the police.


This group of freaks is actually the best example of right wing extremism, as they are taking the concept of personal liberty to the extreme. The neo-nazi's that are the new boogeyman the media is using to scare everyone are simply another branch of left-wing collectivism.

Now I finally understand why the police in the US are so trigger happy, dealing with crap like this daily I would also start shooting them.

 

[rietrot]

They are stupid... don't need a tv show or youtube video compilation to show that.

Most definitely. Naive might be a beter word to describe them. To live in Ceasar's world you need to be realistic about the power and authority that Ceasar wields. Pretending that you can just reject that authority is dangerous to yourself.

 

[konfab]

I haven't seen the video's(will have a look later), but in principle and ideologically I agree with the concept of sovereign citizens and liberty. To me it is almost like an utopian dream of what the world should be like. With the police only protecting that liberty when people can't defend themselves.
These tv shows normally do take it a bit to far though and have an agenda too try and make these people look as stupid as possible.

All these morons need to do is read up on social contract theory:

Alternatively, John Locke and Jean-Jacques Rousseau have argued that we gain civil rights in return for accepting the obligation to respect and defend the rights of others, giving up some freedoms to do so. The central assertion of social contract approaches is that law and political order are not natural, but are instead human creations. The social contract and the political order it creates are simply the means towards an end—the benefit of the individuals involved—and legitimate only to the extent that they fulfill their part of the agreement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract

 

[Nemus]

Listening to the conversations in the videos gives the impression that they follow a central vocabulary, dictionary. Like they have a training session to discuss it.
I do not consent!!! Call your supervisor!

 

[Craig_]

Not sure if this is the correct category, but here's to hoping.

Anyway, so I have recently started watching cops and judges handle sovereign citizens videos on the tube.

Do these people actually believe in the @#$# they talk, and that they are truly not expected to follow the laws of their country/state? I'm sorry, but I don't think anyone in their right mind could believe what these "not a person, but individuals" claim to stand for.

I do enjoy their windows being knocked in though :twisted:

I routinely re-watch those compilation vids of sovereign citizens getting owned.

This is my favorite one:
[video=youtube;QCozh_vbYdM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCozh_vbYdM[/video]

HELP, CALL THE POLICE!!
Sir, we are the police.


This group of freaks is actually the best example of right wing extremism, as they are taking the concept of personal liberty to the extreme. The neo-nazi's that are the new boogeyman the media is using to scare everyone are simply another branch of left-wing collectivism.

You guys should not have posted this, I can't stop watching and as it is I already have very little free time. These people are so entertaining.

 

[Nemus]

You guys should not have posted this, I can't stop watching and as it is I already have very little free time. These people are so entertaining.

Same thing here. Stumbled across it on youtube, and ive since WASTED like 3 hours watching these people. It's addictive seeing them owned!

 

[konfab]

[video=youtube;VnSd-E3Hb3Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnSd-E3Hb3Y[/video]
Another goldie.

 

[konfab]

It's addictive seeing them owned!

Left wing extremists (communism, Nazim etc) are evil.
Right wing extremists (sovereign citizens) are stupid.

 

[Mystic Twilight]

So they don't recognise other rules of law but ironically when the so called sovereign rights of these individuals get infringed on by law enforcement, they call for someone else to defend those infringed rights by applying the laws they were busy ignoring in the first place. And when they get to court, they apply a mix of english semantics with logic to disassociate themselves and create a pseudo straw man.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

This group of freaks is actually the best example of right wing extremism, as they are taking the concept of personal liberty to the extreme. The neo-nazi's that are the new boogeyman the media is using to scare everyone are simply another branch of left-wing collectivism.

Left wing extremists (communism, Nazim etc) are evil.
Right wing extremists (sovereign citizens) are stupid.

What pure horseschit, konfab. You're smarter than this.

This new 'actually, Nazis are left wing!' trope is ridiculously stupid.

 

[HavocXphere]

I haven't seen the video's(will have a look later), but in principle and ideologically I agree with the concept of sovereign citizens and liberty.

well sure...if you're OK with living in one of the few corners of the world not claimed by a legitimate government (there are actually corners like that). If not...behave & obey the laws.

Vaguely related...some countries have clauses preventing complete loss of citizenship. i.e. The law literally says the state may not take any action that makes someone stateless.

 

[bokdrol]

Not to be tolerated. Just an excuse for asocial behaviour.

 

[konfab]

What pure horseschit, konfab. You're smarter than this.

This new 'actually, Nazis are left wing!' trope is ridiculously stupid.

I know the cool-aid is delicious, but you are wrong on this. The definition that you are using is that nationalism automatically translates to being right wing. That is incorrect. What the "right-wing" facism did, is cross out "class struggle" and make it "national struggle". The actual policies that they employ to facilitate the struggle are identical. But those are hate facts.

Just look at the evidence:

We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich.
We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).
We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.
We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.
For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The forming of state and profession chambers for the execution of the laws made by the Reich within the various states of the confederation. The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Program

You want more evidence?

By now, he was one of Italy's most prominent socialists. In September 1911, Mussolini participated in a riot, led by socialists, against the Italian war in Libya. He bitterly denounced Italy's "imperialist war", an action that earned him a five-month jail term.[33] After his release he helped expel from the Socialist Party two "revisionists" who had supported the war, Ivanoe Bonomi and Leonida Bissolati. As a result, he was rewarded the editorship of the Socialist Party newspaper Avanti! Under his leadership, its circulation soon rose from 20,000 to 100,000.[34] At this time, Mussolini was so familiar with Marxist literature that in his own writings he would not only quote from well-known Marxist works but also from the relatively obscure works.[35] During this period, Mussolini, like all revolutionaries, considered himself a Marxist and he described Marx as "the greatest of all theorists of socialism.

Then he realised that you can rally the working class and the white collar classes together by posing the struggle as a national struggle, and then doing exactly the same thing.

A former school teacher, Mussolini’s spending on the public sector, schools and infrastructure was considered extravagant. Mussolini “instituted a programme of public works hitherto unrivalled in modern Europe. Bridges, canals and roads were built, hospitals and schools, railway stations and orphanages; swamps were drained and land reclaimed, forests were planted and universities were endowed.”[15] As for the scope and spending on social welfare programs, Italian fascism “compared favorably with the more advanced European nations and in some respect was more progressive.”[16] When New York city politician Grover Aloysius Whalen asked Mussolini about the meaning behind Italian Fascism in 1939, the reply was: “It is like your New Deal!”[17]

By 1925 the Fascist government had “embarked upon an elaborate program” that included food supplementary assistance, infant care, maternity assistance, general healthcare, wage supplements, paid vacations, unemployment benefits, illness insurance, occupational disease insurance, general family assistance, public housing, and old age and disability insurance.[18] As for public works, “the Mussolini’s administration “devoted 400 million lire of public monies” for school construction between 1922 and 1942, compared to only 60 million lire between 1862 and 1922.[19]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Mussolini

In the US right now, which party would you more likely see policies like:

included food supplementary assistance, infant care, maternity assistance, general healthcare, wage supplements, paid vacations, unemployment benefits, illness insurance, occupational disease insurance, general family assistance, public housing, and old age and disability insurance.

from? The Democrats or Republicans?

Even Stalin started to see global failure of communism, and started to rally people around the power of the state:

The National Question was never as well resolved in the Soviet era as idealism wished or propaganda claimed. Joseph Stalin, even having been the first People's Commissar for Nationalities and the author of Marxism and the National Question, found that balanced supranational union in the USSR remained a falsehood. The failure of the world revolution and true proletarian internationalism in the early 1920s was a severe test of Marxist theory that in fact shattered some aspects of it. This crisis drove Bukharin, Stalin, and associates to the new theory of Socialism in One Country, which was anathema to many internationalist communists. Stalin emphasized a centralist Soviet socialist patriotism that spoke of a "Soviet people" and identified Russians as being the "elder brothers of the Soviet people".[2] During World War II, Soviet socialist patriotism and Russian nationalism merged, portraying the war not just as a struggle between socialists versus capitalists, but more as a struggle for national survival.[2] During the war, the interests of the Soviet Union and the Russian nation were presented as the same, and as a result Stalin's government embraced Russia's historical heroes and symbols, and established a de facto alliance with the Russian Orthodox Church.

If you wanted to be intellectually honest, using your current theory, you would also have to describe Stalin as being a right wing extremist.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

*snip*

Dude, stop trying to retcon history so you can notch another enemy under the 'left' column which you so despise.

Statism is not unique to the left, and Nazism is fascist, which is a far right ideology.

Read the wiki, it describes everything you're confused about, including how it was developed in specific rejection of socialism (and Marxism's core premise) and how it was in specific opposition to the left everywhere it was encountered.

Mussolini was born into a Marxist family and was one for a while, but ultimately rejected it in favour of fascism.