State capture inquiry begins

Fulcrum29

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The whole point of what happen in the commission today was to keep the process 100% above reproach. Zondo is aware that Zuma will lie through his teeth and duck and dive answering questions directly even when given 2 weeks to formulate his responses. This plays more into painting Zuma as a unreliable witness so his testimony will hold less weight when it gets into a court of law.

Zondo has well and truly played Zuma and his legal team. He has painted them into a corner that they will struggle to get out of. Jacob incriminated himself in the commission, and now they will have to make 100% sure that the prepared statements they present do not contradict anything he has said so far.

https://www.sastatecapture.org.za/uploads/PROCLAMATION_NO_8_OF_2018.pdf (PDF)

Amendment of regulation 8 of the Regulations

2. Regulation 8 of the Regulations is hereby amended by the substitution for subregulation (2) for the following: (2) [No evidence regarding questions and answers contemplated in subregulation (1), and no evidence regarding any fact or information that comes to light in consequence of any such questions or answers, shall be admissible in any criminal proceedings, excepts in criminal proceedings where the person concerned is charged with an offence in terms of section 6 of the Commissions Act, 1947 (Act No. 8 of 1947), or regulation 12] A self-incriminating answer or a statement given by a witness before the Commission shall not be admissible as evidence against that person in a criminal proceedings brought against that person instituted in a court, except in criminal proceedings where the person concerned is charged with an offence in terms of section 6 of the Commissions Act 1947 Act No. 8 of 1947

Zuma is a witness because he is implicated by other testimonies. Section 6 also doesn't apply to Zuma in this case as he has reached an agreement with the Zondo Commission to give testimony at another time. It is also not up to the Zondo Commission to initiate Zuma's prosecution, they may, however, make that recommendation to the president which must make that decision based on the Zondo Commission's report.
 

Mista_Mobsta

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https://www.sastatecapture.org.za/uploads/PROCLAMATION_NO_8_OF_2018.pdf (PDF)



Zuma is a witness because he is implicated by other testimonies. Section 6 also doesn't apply to Zuma in this case as he has reached an agreement with the Zondo Commission to give testimony at another time. It is also not up to the Zondo Commission to initiate Zuma's prosecution, they may, however, make that recommendation to the president which must make that decision based on the Zondo Commission's report.
Either way the self-incrimination angle may have been used by Zuma and co to ensure his testimony at the commission can't be used against him in any criminal proceedings going forward.

How then can a criminal case be made against him if his testimony in the commission is inadmissible?
 

ToxicBunny

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https://www.sastatecapture.org.za/uploads/PROCLAMATION_NO_8_OF_2018.pdf (PDF)



Zuma is a witness because he is implicated by other testimonies. Section 6 also doesn't apply to Zuma in this case as he has reached an agreement with the Zondo Commission to give testimony at another time. It is also not up to the Zondo Commission to initiate Zuma's prosecution, they may, however, make that recommendation to the president which must make that decision based on the Zondo Commission's report.

100%... but it all paints a picture for the judges outside of the commission if things ever do get to court.... Zondo is no mans fool and is fully aware that what he is doing may not end up in any specific charges, but there will be a chunk of stuff that can be referenced should things end up in court.
 

Fulcrum29

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Either way the self-incrimination angle may have been used by Zuma and co to ensure his testimony at the commission can't be used against him in any criminal proceedings going forward.

How then can a criminal case be made against him if his testimony in the commission is inadmissible?

This was a decision made last year which was signed in my current president, Ramaphosa, because witnesses didn’t want to give testimony without implicating themselves.

The commission chooses to receive testimony in a certain order to establish a cross-examination process. The process is in their rule book which the Zuma legal team argues against due to a simple technicality, in regard to being granted leave, and then changed that into a motive where Zuma is being cross-examined, being connected in the previous testimonies. In the USA they have the 5th Amendment (which is Constitutional), but in Zuma’s case, it would be wise to deny the other witnesses testimony by either being unaware or too vague to remember.

This is why Pretorius will ask questions without having the current witness stepping into a scenario where his testimony shall not be admissible as evidence. He used Hogan’s testimony against Zuma, and Zuma’s legal team was expecting that and that was when they intervened. Pretorius asked normal procedural questions in order to give Hogan’s testimony credibility. The commission’s legal team is building a case, they are connecting the dots. They used this opportunity to have Zuma support the other testimonies.

The only testimony Zuma gave was calling out comrades as spies, implicating others in state capture and calling on the Third Force as the might behind the current circumstances.
 

Fulcrum29

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100%... but it all paints a picture for the judges outside of the commission if things ever do get to court.... Zondo is no mans fool and is fully aware that what he is doing may not end up in any specific charges, but there will be a chunk of stuff that can be referenced should things end up in court.

It pains me that the commission does have the power to ask the president to compel witnesses to give testimony. I don’t think Ramaphosa will do that to Zuma…

Zuma’s legal team is a strange lot. They argue the rules in which they are well aware they are participating in and then they use that to try to belittle Pretorius’s legal approach. They sang to the gallery.
 

ToxicBunny

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It pains me that the commission does have the power to ask the president to compel witnesses to give testimony. I don’t think Ramaphosa will do that to Zuma…

Zuma’s legal team is a strange lot. They argue the rules in which they are well aware they are participating in and then they use that to try to belittle Pretorius’s legal approach. They sang to the gallery.

Yeah, I doubt CR would do that to Zuma just yet... it would cause too many issues for him...

As for Jacobs lawyers, their sole goal was to play to the crowd... and Jacob did that, but he also hurt himself in the process of doing that in my opinion. Legally he has made things challenging for himself.
 

Fulcrum29

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http://www.sabcnews.com/sabcnews/zu...ommission-aimed-at-tarnishing-his-reputation/

Zuma claims State Capture Commission aimed at tarnishing his reputation
Former President Jacob Zuma has claimed that the State Capture Commission is being used to destroy his reputation.Zuma was speaking at a podium outside the Commission’s Parktown offices in Johannesburg.

His lawyer had earlier threatened that Zuma would withdraw from the Commission over claims of unfairness. However, Justice Raymond Zondo has secured an agreement from Zuma’s legal team that they will continue to participate.

The Commission has adjourned for the day and Zuma has addressed his supporters outside the Commission’s offices.

 

Fulcrum29

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TheChamp

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In the Sunday Times, The late Minister Chabane's spokesperson Brent Simmons says Zuma lied under oath about Maseko's removal. I wonder if Zuma is bust reflecting on the parts of his testimony that's going to haunt him.
 

Gordon_R

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In the Sunday Times, The late Minister Chabane's spokesperson Brent Simmons says Zuma lied under oath about Maseko's removal. I wonder if Zuma is bust reflecting on the parts of his testimony that's going to haunt him.

Link is paywalled: https://www.timeslive.co.za/politic...-staff-accuse-jacob-zuma-of-lying-under-oath/
The former spokesperson for late minister Collins Chabane, Brent Simmons, says former president Jacob Zuma lied under oath when he told the Zondo commission he did not instruct Chabane to fire former cabinet spokesman Themba Maseko.

Simmons told the Sunday Times that he and several staff members who worked in Chabane’s ministry are prepared to testify that Zuma called Chabane and instructed him to end Maseko’s tenure as head of the Government Communication & Information System (GCIS) and told him to replace Maseko with Mzwanele Manyi.

“I told the commission that I will testify and I can say under oath that Zuma’s PA called minister Chabane on his chief of staff’s phone and gave him a clear instruction not to renew Maseko’s contract as head of GCIS and to replace him with Jimmy Manyi,” he said.
 
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R13...

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Unless they recorded the instructions with Zuma's signature on he'll soldier on denying everything. I'm sure he'd refuse to admit culpability even if they presented video evidence
 

Gordon_R

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Unless they recorded the instructions with Zuma's signature on he'll soldier on denying everything. I'm sure he'd refuse to admit culpability even if they presented video evidence

The article is pretty clear:
But Simmons, who earlier deposed that he was present when Zuma asked Chabane to assist family members with government contracts, said Zuma had lied under oath.

“Zuma was abroad when he made the call. His PA called the chief of staff. They spoke and the minister was very upset that he was made to do this. They can even check the call history,” Simmons said.

Source: https://www.pressreader.com/south-africa/sunday-times-1107/20190721/281633896826064

He said Chabane told him that Zuma was adamant that Manyi should be the head of the GCIS. “I worked closely with minister Chabane. Many of his staff, too. He told all of us that he was upset that he had to do that. He didn’t have a good relationship with Manyi,” Simmons said.

Maseko, one of the first witnesses to implicate Zuma, said last year that in 2010 the Guptas pressured him to ensure their publication, The New Age, received the government’s entire R600m advertising spend.

He said he was called by Ajay Gupta, who told him that his failure to co-operate would be reported to his seniors to “sort him out”.
 

TheChamp

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Unless they recorded the instructions with Zuma's signature on he'll soldier on denying everything. I'm sure he'd refuse to admit culpability even if they presented video evidence
I noted the part where it is Zuma's PA who relayed Zuma's demands to Chabane, let's hope the PA is still alive.
 

Excalibur

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Wily JZ seems to be outrunning everyone who thought this commission would be his grave.

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