Stay At Home Mums

[Polymathic]

I've been noticing recently online that there's a growing trend amongst women in industrialised countries choosing to give up work become Stay At Mums (or in non PC circles Housewives) to raise their babies at the very least until they are old enough for school.

It seems like in these cases the priority is to spend the maximum amount of the time and attention to their infant and for both parents to be more hands on a stark difference to what was seemed popular a couple years back where everybody wanted to put their babies in the most best/most expensive Daycare possible as a result both parents working overtime just to put their kid through daycare that can't really afford.

This is also flying in the face of what popular media is saying about women in the workforce etc.

No doubt the pandemic is also playing a role in women choosing to give up work.

 

[Tomtomtom]

Makes some sense in places where the cost of labour is so high that childcare is expensive no matter who does it. Lockdowns obviously forced the decision for a lot of people too.

But in SA when I hear about a university-educated woman staying at home with a toddler by choice I wonder what's going on. Is she broken? Does her husband have a problem with her earning an income?

A toddler is about as mentally stimulating as a cabbage. Looking after one is lots of fun... for about 5 minutes. I understand the "first 1000 days" argument but it doesn't make sense that a PhD is required on 24-hour duty.

So I reckon it's better to actually have fun for 5 minutes and make it high-quality time, than to be increasingly resentful at the fact that you're way overqualified for the insanely boring work you're doing.

Nevermind the impact on the child as s/he grows up and the mom is now communicating her resentment / regret i.e. "I sacrificed my career for you" etc.

That said if the only options are 60-hour workweeks or getting to see your child grow up, I would pick the latter. But it's usually a false dichotomy. (Which actually gets back to the original question: are these women really "giving up work" or are they actually shifting into different kinds of work, part-time, more piecemeal, going freelance for example.)

 

[Other Pineapple Smurf]

What about blended housewifing? I feel this is the future of parenting and the route skilled(educated) parents will take.

You only have a small timebox in a child life that they need a lot of attention from parents. They do grow up, trust me, and become independent tweenagers.

My wife made the decision four years ago to work from home so that she could spend more time on the little pineapples. She is a mother first, a businesswoman second and is earning more today for making that choice.

Working from home myself I see how easy it is to do my houseman chores in between work. At the office, I use to join in on the smoke breaks even though I don't smoke and now I take coffee breaks to do a chore while my coffee machine makes my cup.

 

[Cius]

My wife wanted to do that for our kids so she left a job she loved once the first baby came along to be with them. I supported her in that. She has always maintained a bit of a side hustle though and now that the kids are in primary school and getting more independent she is ramping up the work and has started studying part time.

Friends of ours and family that moved to NZ said its the norm there. It is very difficult to have a dual income home there with young kids as the daycare's only accept kids over the age of 3 or something.

Anyways, before getting married she made it clear what she wanted to do and I was happy to support her in that (also had a stay at home mom myself) so we made the relevant financial decisions early, only ever committing my salary to cost of living and largely saving hers for the first few years before we started the family.

One older relative who was a stay at home mom now has the time to work but lacks any confidence and did not keep her skills up to date and is now finding the idea of working daunting. She is super impressed with how my wife has kept her skills current and has found side work that was flexible in terms of hours etc allowing her to be at home when she needs to but still earn a bit to help out the family finances as well as keep her employable for if and when she does decide to return to the formal workplace.

It is worth making that happen if you are a woman wanting to be at home as once the kids get independent having industry contacts and some skills makes all the difference in the world.

 

[Lupus]

Makes some sense in places where the cost of labour is so high that childcare is expensive no matter who does it. Lockdowns obviously forced the decision for a lot of people too.

But in SA when I hear about a university-educated woman staying at home with a toddler by choice I wonder what's going on. Is she broken? Does her husband have a problem with her earning an income?

A toddler is about as mentally stimulating as a cabbage. Looking after one is lots of fun... for about 5 minutes. I understand the "first 1000 days" argument but it doesn't make sense that a PhD is required on 24-hour duty.

So I reckon it's better to actually have fun for 5 minutes and make it high-quality time, than to be increasingly resentful at the fact that you're way overqualified for the insanely boring work you're doing.

Nevermind the impact on the child as s/he grows up and the mom is now communicating her resentment / regret i.e. "I sacrificed my career for you" etc.

That said if the only options are 60-hour workweeks or getting to see your child grow up, I would pick the latter. But it's usually a false dichotomy. (Which actually gets back to the original question: are these women really "giving up work" or are they actually shifting into different kinds of work, part-time, more piecemeal, going freelance for example.)

Wow you sound bitter there.
Perhaps the mother was tired of the workforce, perhaps she wanted to rather spend time with her kids, you might think it's mentally stimulating as a cabbage, but perhaps try actually raising a child. It's a full time job, even after they get older. When my son was younger I used to work from home every second day to look after him and it was tiring, they require a lot more then just staring at them.
Throw on work that you need to do and your day is 12+hours. Then my wife was retrenched in 2014 and has been a housewife since and unless you've got a staff to look after house and the kid, you're busy all day.
Perhaps the reason that women are choosing to look after kids is because they've realised that it might be more rewarding, perhaps their husbands have decent jobs and they don't need to sacrifice their time with the kids for work?
No one on their deathbed goes you know what I wish I was in the office till 8pm every night instead of being with my kids... Well maybe some do.

 

[RandomGeek]

Working from home myself I see how easy it is to do my houseman chores in between work. At the office, I use to join in on the smoke breaks even though I don't smoke and now I take coffee breaks to do a chore while my coffee machine makes my cup.

Ironing is the worst. Rest is relatively quick agreed

 

[EADC]

I've been noticing recently online that there's a growing trend amongst women in industrialised countries choosing to give up work become Stay At Mums (or in non PC circles Housewives) to raise their babies at the very least until they are old enough for school.

It seems like in these cases the priority is to spend the maximum amount of the time and attention to their infant and for both parents to be more hands on a stark difference to what was seemed popular a couple years back where everybody wanted to put their babies in the most best/most expensive Daycare possible as a result both parents working overtime just to put their kid through daycare that can't really afford.

This is also flying in the face of what popular media is saying about women in the workforce etc.

No doubt the pandemic is also playing a role in women choosing to give up work.

Here is the important part, if you want to be a house wife do it. if you want to work do that.

Its about choice really.

 

[RonSwanson]

Here is the important part, if you want to be a house wife do it. if you want to work do that.

Its about choice really.

Such an insightful post. /s

 

[Tomtomtom]

Wow you sound bitter there.

I am basically a stay-at-home dad, so ja you could say I'm representing. It's notable it's all guys responding in this thread -- all quite positive about stay-at-home moms. Are we speaking for the moms or is it mostly just about our own egos?

I do think middle-class men in SA in general have a special case of anachronistic 1950s-style patriarchy going on. We like it that we earn enough (outside the home) so our ladies can stay at home and keep their nails clean. But I'll spare you the feminism.

Bottom line is actually I'm interested in having a partner who is able to maintain adult conversation, especially since she's spent 15 years getting educated for it.

I fully agree no one on their deathbed regrets seeing their child grow up -- but there's a big difference between, as I said, a 60-hour workweek, and being a "stay-at-home mom".

It doesn't have to be -- and imo should not be -- a situation in which a highly-skilled woman is reduced to minding a child all day. In a country where labour is so damn cheap and qualifications so rare, it's ridiculous.

Unless of course stay-at-home mom has changed meaning. Thanks to the pandemic all moms stay at home.

 

[TedLasso]

Another male view. I work crazy hours but get a shitty fixed salary for that. My wife earns more the longer she works as an HCP and works equally long. She can't and has never WFH even during L5 lockdown.

We have grandparents that look after our kids during the day after school and we pay for expensive day school (5 and 2.5 year old cost us 96k p.a).

My oldest has some developmental issues and we spend 12k a month on his PT/OT etc . It's nuts. For the first time in 2 years I submitted those bills v to discovery for reimbursement.

A question my wife has been having recently is she wants to spend more time with the children - as she does work crazy long hours 6 days a week. She is getting frustrated and the resentment is showing when she deals with kids , in being angry with/at them .

But the question I posed to her is this, it's better that she works longer to make the money and then we spend some more money getting a qualified nanny to manage children weekdays - allowing her to work those long hours without getting resentment / etc . Even though she won't admit it, I can see she does also get gatvol doing things with them - even if she says she wants to spend more time with them.

Getting a nanny , allows us take the pressure off the grandparents, who are amazing,but look to be 'tired' (physically) of having to deal with post school run. They spoil the children with loads of love, toys and freedom to do whatever, which is indirectly causing some of the issues too. A nanny means we control a bit more of the narrative.

More importantly , it allows us not to feel guilty and just work as we do on the weekdays and by the time we get home around 6pm , kids would be fed and ready for some play time with us, before bed. In any case we only pick up kids from grandparents after 5.30pm so this would have a great benefit for kids too - though it would be with a stranger (for all intents) .

In my case, I also need to buck up and on Saturdays do more with children and not work as whether I do it or not, I still get the same salary.

It's tough

 

[Lupus]

I am basically a stay-at-home dad, so ja you could say I'm representing. It's notable it's all guys responding in this thread -- all quite positive about stay-at-home moms. Are we speaking for the moms or is it mostly just about our own egos?

I do think middle-class men in SA in general have a special case of anachronistic 1950s-style patriarchy going on. We like it that we earn enough (outside the home) so our ladies can stay at home and keep their nails clean. But I'll spare you the feminism.

Bottom line is actually I'm interested in having a partner who is able to maintain adult conversation, especially since she's spent 15 years getting educated for it.

I fully agree no one on their deathbed regrets seeing their child grow up -- but there's a big difference between, as I said, a 60-hour workweek, and being a "stay-at-home mom".

It doesn't have to be -- and imo should not be -- a situation in which a highly-skilled woman is reduced to minding a child all day. In a country where labour is so damn cheap and qualifications so rare, it's ridiculous.

Unless of course stay-at-home mom has changed meaning. Thanks to the pandemic all moms stay at home.

At the end of the day it's the women's choice. If she wants to be a house wife let her, it's also not an easy job. It's also thankless, hard, long hours, no pay.
Labour in SA is also not really that cheap anymore, good labour that is. Raising kids isn't just letting someone watch them

 

[surface]

Ironing is the worst. Rest is relatively quick agreed

Freedom from Ironing. I got one T-shirt/jacket and one shorts/one jean depending on weather. That is my covid outgoing outfit. WFH perks. I can't get into any of my work pants so that is going to be fun if that ends.

 

[RedViking]

No there isn't.

There is a growing trend world wide that more dads are starting to stay at home while the opposite sex goes to work.

Stay at home Paps.

 

[pinball wizard]

Interesting perspective from the women.

Oh wait...

 

[Polymathic]

I am basically a stay-at-home dad, so ja you could say I'm representing. It's notable it's all guys responding in this thread -- all quite positive about stay-at-home moms. Are we speaking for the moms or is it mostly just about our own egos?

I do think middle-class men in SA in general have a special case of anachronistic 1950s-style patriarchy going on. We like it that we earn enough (outside the home) so our ladies can stay at home and keep their nails clean. But I'll spare you the feminism.

Bottom line is actually I'm interested in having a partner who is able to maintain adult conversation, especially since she's spent 15 years getting educated for it.

I fully agree no one on their deathbed regrets seeing their child grow up -- but there's a big difference between, as I said, a 60-hour workweek, and being a "stay-at-home mom".

It doesn't have to be -- and imo should not be -- a situation in which a highly-skilled woman is reduced to minding a child all day. In a country where labour is so damn cheap and qualifications so rare, it's ridiculous.

Unless of course stay-at-home mom has changed meaning. Thanks to the pandemic all moms stay at home.

This goes way beyond just minding a child, the priority of the parents is the maximize the amount of direct attention the child gets in their informative years.

In the past and probably current with most housewives in SA a Housewives priorities are as follows cook, clean and make sure the child doesn't get in trouble or hurt themselves as far as time allocation.

With the help of modern technology and appliances parents are able to maximize the amount of attention they give their infant.

If I had to put in SA terms the mothers who are opting for this strategy, their role less like a domestic/child minder or more like an one on one early day care teacher who does some cooking and cleaning (mind you the fathers don't shirk on the housework and child rearing duties)

The time spent with the child seems highly focused on skilling up the child

 

[Polymathic]

No there isn't.

There is a growing trend world wide that more dads are starting to stay at home while the opposite sex goes to work.

Stay at home Paps.

That was like 5 years ago now.

 

[RedViking]

That was like 5 years ago now.

No it wasn't. It's right now. Happening at this moment. Dad's are becoming stay at home, or mix of work at home and stay at home while mum's are out there working.

 

[Alton Turner Blackwood]

I made my wife quit her job 12 years ago because she kept complaining about it. She only had matric and was a secretary earning R5 000 a month and was struggling to find another job. I told her to rather stay at home and look after our kid (we only had our then 2 year old). Our decision was reinforced when my daughter once came home with a broken tooth and the creche could not explain to me what happened.

So in-between being a SAHM, she studied part-time and did accounting from home for a medical company.

There's nothing like coming home to a cooked meal and a clean house.

Even though she was at home 24/7, we decided a couple of years ago to put our kids in aftercare so they can socialise more since we generally kept to ourselves and didn't go out much.

Since I started working from home fulltime, we started falling over each other's feet, so now she works fulltime, but this caused a rift because the campuses she lectures at are all over the province so we sometimes see her only once a week. We haven't seen her since Sunday. When she eventually gets home, it's marking of scripts and other stuff related to her work.

Our roles are pretty much reversed now since I do the cooking and cleaning.

I guess you could say that lockdown cost me my marriage because we're currently in the process of getting divorced.

 

[Lupus]

I made my wife quit her job 12 years ago because she kept complaining about it. She only had matric and was a secretary earning R5 000 a month and was struggling to find another job. I told her to rather stay at home and look after our kid (we only had our then 2 year old). Our decision was reinforced when my daughter once came home with a broken tooth and the creche could not explain to me what happened.

So in-between being a SAHM, she studied part-time and did accounting from home for a medical company.

There's nothing like coming home to a cooked meal and a clean house.

Even though she was at home 24/7, we decided a couple of years ago to put our kids in aftercare so they can socialise more since we generally kept to ourselves and didn't go out much.

Since I started working from home fulltime, we started falling over each other's feet, so now she works fulltime, but this caused a rift because the campuses she lectures at are all over the province so we sometimes see her only once a week. We haven't seen her since Sunday. When she eventually gets home, it's marking of scripts and other stuff related to her work.

Our roles are pretty much reversed now since I do the cooking and cleaning.

I guess you could say that lockdown cost me my marriage because we're currently in the process of getting divorced.

You're also getting a divorce now though?

 

[Tomtomtom]

I guess you could say that lockdown cost me my marriage because we're currently in the process of getting divorced.

I'd be interested to hear her version of it. Might have something to do with not actually wanting to be at home in the first place?

There's nothing like coming home to a cooked meal and a clean house.

This can be organised for you in SA by someone you employ for less than R5k/month. This is really what I don't understand.