Stop patronising poor Americans

grayston said:
I got improved fuel efficiency thanks to my nice clean car. You can have the 4c/100km that I save. :)

(What's that? A mutually beneficial trade? Gosh!)
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That's wonderful. So I get R4000 for every 100,000km you drive and all I had to do was wash your car once. Acting like the government sure is profitable :-)
 
ghoti said:
Dont worry mate, the only people who call taxation theft are those that do not know how to read a dictionary and look up the word "taxation". Not one single respectable dictionary defines taxation as theft. The people who argue that taxation is theft play with semantics and other word play to reach their conclusions.
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Tax, noun: a compulsory financial contribution imposed by a government to raise revenue

Compulsory, adjective: required; mandatory

Impose, verb: to lay on or set as something to be borne, endured, obeyed, fulfilled, paid, etc.: to impose taxes.

Robbery, noun: the felonious taking of the property of another from his or her person or in his or her immediate presence, against his or her will, by violence or intimidation.

--

Taxation is when the government requires you to give it money. This condition is imposed upon you. If you refuse to give the money, you will be intimidated and/or aggressed upon until you do.

Robbery is when someone requires you give them money. This condition is imposed upon you. If you refuse to give the money, you will be intimidated and/or aggressed upon until you do.
 
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ghoti said:
Dont worry mate, the only people who call taxation theft are those that do not know how to read a dictionary and look up the word "taxation". Not one single respectable dictionary defines taxation as theft. The people who argue that taxation is theft play with semantics and other word play to reach their conclusions.
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To prove my point here is Hard Rains response:

Hard Rain said:
Tax, noun: a compulsory financial contribution imposed by a government to raise revenue

Compulsory, adjective: required; mandatory

Impose, verb: to lay on or set as something to be borne, endured, obeyed, fulfilled, paid, etc.: to impose taxes.

Robbery, noun: the felonious taking of the property of another from his or her person or in his or her immediate presence, against his or her will, by violence or intimidation.
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Exactly as I called :D
 
ghoti said:
Exactly as I called :D
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Here is my summary and conclusion. Please tell me if I haven't used a word according to definition:

Taxation is when the government requires you to give it money. This condition is imposed upon you. If you refuse to give the money, you will be intimidated and/or aggressed upon until you do.

Robbery is when someone requires you give them money. This condition is imposed upon you. If you refuse to give the money, you will be intimidated and/or aggressed upon until you do.
 
Hard Rain said:
Here is my summary and conclusion. Please tell me if I haven't used a word according to definition:

Taxation is when the government requires you to give it money. This condition is imposed upon you. If you refuse to give the money, you will be intimidated and/or aggressed upon until you do.

Robbery is when someone requires you give them money. This condition is imposed upon you. If you refuse to give the money, you will be intimidated and/or aggressed upon until you do.
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You can use that same definition to define your drivers licence as theft. Hahaha!
 
Hard Rain said:
Here is my summary and conclusion. Please tell me if I haven't used a word according to definition:

Taxation is when the government requires you to give it money. This condition is imposed upon you. If you refuse to give the money, you will be intimidated and/or aggressed upon until you do.
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Yes. And?

Try leaving a restaurant without paying and see how far you get. :)

Obivously you have the choice not to go to the restuarant in the first place. I suppose you also have the choice to live in the desert in a hut. But if you want a certain standard of living and you want to live in an environment which allows you to make money, you gotta pay for that privilege. Nothing comes for free.
 
ghoti said:
You can use that same definition to define your drivers licence as theft. Hahaha!
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No, you cannot.

Driver's license, noun: a permit, as one issued by a state's motor vehicle bureau, that allows the holder to drive a motor vehicle on public roads.

Do you see the word "compulsory" or "impose" in that definition?
 
grayston said:
Obivously you have the choice not to go to the restuarant in the first place. I suppose you also have the choice to live in the desert in a hut. But if you want a certain standard of living and you want to live in an environment which allows you to make money, you gotta pay for that privilege. Nothing comes for free.
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I suppose you also have the choice to live alone on an island and then you won't get robbed. So you have no ethical response then, just a pragmatic utilitarian one. "Taxation is robbery, but the alternatives suck so I'd choose taxation." Still doesn't make it okay, right?
 
Hard Rain said:
I suppose you also have the choice to live alone on an island and then you won't get robbed. So you have no ethical response then, just a pragmatic utilitarian one. "Taxation is robbery, but the alternatives suck so I'd choose taxation." Still doesn't make it okay, right?
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The only person saying taxation is robbery is you, because you don't feel that you, personally, benefit from paying tax. Seeing as the benefits of trade are logically subjective, as wildcat logically proved, all you need to do is change your personal perception.

Make a list of stuff your tax money helps pay for.
 
grayston said:
The only person saying taxation is robbery is you, because you don't feel that you, personally, benefit from paying tax.
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B.S. There is nothing in the definition of robbery or taxation that disqualifies the act based on whether or not the victim believes it is of their benefit.

Is it still a crime if I rob you at gunpoint and give your money to the SPCA or spend it at a casino?
 
grayston said:
Yes. And?

Try leaving a restaurant without paying and see how far you get. :)

Obivously you have the choice not to go to the restuarant in the first place. I suppose you also have the choice to live in the desert in a hut. But if you want a certain standard of living and you want to live in an environment which allows you to make money, you gotta pay for that privilege. Nothing comes for free.
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And the obvious response to that question is WHY does the restuarant owner get to charge you and enforce this by eating at his or her restuarant?

Please answer this question.
 
WilD_CaT said:
And the obvious response to that question is WHY does the restuarant owner get to charge you and enforce this by eating at his or her restuarant?
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Ah - because you made a choice to go to his restaurant instead of staying home and eating the carrots you grew in your backyard! A service was provided and the provider is entitled to demand compensation for it.

Again - if you don't want to pay tax, you have the choice of reducing your income to below threshhold level. If you want to make more money than that, then contribute to the environment which allows you to do so. The more money you make, the more of the environment you make use of, and the more you need to contribute.
 
Hard Rain said:
No, you cannot.

Driver's license, noun: a permit, as one issued by a state's motor vehicle bureau, that allows the holder to drive a motor vehicle on public roads.

Do you see the word "compulsory" or "impose" in that definition?
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/facepalm

Um... drivers licenses are compulsory if you wish to drive on South African roads....
 
grayston said:
Again - if you don't want to pay tax, you have the choice of reducing your income to below threshhold level. If you want to make more money than that, then contribute to the environment which allows you to do so. The more money you make, the more of the environment you make use of, and the more you need to contribute.
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QFT. We need that in big bold letters and in a large font.
 
grayston said:
Ah - because you made a choice to go to his restaurant instead of staying home and eating the carrots you grew in your backyard! A service was provided and the provider is entitled to demand compensation for it.
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Why was the provider entitled to demand payment.
 
grayston said:
We'll probably have to prove that it's deductively logical as well.
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Yes it is logical, no it does not follow that taxation is ethical.

Again. Why does the restuarant owner have the ability to DEMAND payment for his goods or service. I mean he can also decide NOT to charge or give me a freebie. So why is it his choice and not mine?

Put another way, if I use the goods, can the restuarant owner decide what do with me, charge me or not? (Like the state can decide, tax or no tax, more or less).

Can he do that, and if so WHY does he have the option to do this.
 
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WilD_CaT said:
Why was the provider entitled to demand payment.
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I see where you're going with that. The government has imposed a law that entitles you to demand payment for a service your customer agreed to purchase. A similar law is being used to make sure you contribute to the environment you live in. But because government made the law, and government administers the environment, it's being both judge and jury and is, in a logically deductive manner, geez I don't even know any more... Unethical? Hypocritical? Criminal? Twofaced? Mean?

Still gotta pay for what you use, kid.
 
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