suicide

Morgoth said:
so your suggesting those who suffer from depression just get this random feeling one day and decide to hurt everyone around them? ........right
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I'm saying its selfish nevertheless - depression or no depression. You don't get exempt because you're labelled.

You're still leaving many people behind that love, care and possibly look up to you. You're still leaving behind people that will cry over you 1, 5 and 10 years from now.
 
I'm with Dolby - depression is not an excuse.

Alcoholism isn't an excuse for drunk driving - is it?
 
Dolby said:
How is it not selfish?

I - thankfully - haven't had anyone commit suicide around me, but my aunt tried and didn't even think about who would look after her two young kids nor gave a thought to anyone left over - her parents (my grandparents).
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Granted, but was the 'selfish' decision made whilst in a rational state of mind?
 
i think it is very selfish...

...but if you really consider doing it, just do it, as no one likes a person that whines about everything, and make empty promises.

my opinion might be very one sided, as *touch wood* i've never known anyone who has considered it
 
Whether or not the choice is made in a rational state of mind wasn't the initial question - nor what's being discussed here. What we are discussing is whether the act itslf is.

Personally - and many agree - it is a very selfish act because of what and who you leave behind.

Adj. 1. selfish - concerned chiefly or only with yourself and your advantage to the exclusion of others

Chriskop - I do understand. Depression is a label. As is Bipolar, anxiety disorder, personailty disorders etc and listed is DSM-IV. I didn't say it wasn't real - I said it's a label and diagnosed. Ther's a difference.
 
Dolby said:
I'm saying its selfish nevertheless - depression or no depression. You don't get exempt because you're labelled.

You're still leaving many people behind that love, care and possibly look up to you. You're still leaving behind people that will cry over you 1, 5 and 10 years from now.
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By the same token sticking around and becoming more and more incapable of looking after yourself because the depression is so overpowering that you cant get out of bed, or care about performing at work etc just burdens those same people? Is that fair on them? Is it fair on a child to watch its mother like that? Is it fair on a partner to have to pick up the pieces for the depressed person? What about the company that pays their employee every month while he / she is in and out of hospital or on sick leave or just not doing their job? How does one balance these opposing ends of the scale?
 
If you DON'T have any direct dependants, ie. children. then I think it's fine.

If someone wants out of this crazy, and for some mostly awful, world then it's their choice. Nobody has the right to stop someone from exercising their right of choice.
I agree that it is a little selfish if you have loving family/friends. However if a concerted effort has been repeatedly made with no result, then you can't blame the person. You're not the one who has to live their life for them, and if you just want them around to make YOU feel better then who is the selfish one!?

I see some people being nasty, and that's quite understandable as a life pattern of constant depression is not easy to understand. It is however extremely childish and telling of one's personality to be so caustic and offhand about the matter. Obviously a lot of immaturity floating around here.

The main thing that bothers me is the mess. Loss of bowel control..rotting corpse.
It would have to be something clean or somewhere no one would ever find me.
 
almostgone said:
By the same token sticking around and becoming more and more incapable of looking after yourself because the depression is so overpowering that you cant get out of bed, or care about performing at work etc just burdens those same people? Is that fair on them? Is it fair on a child to watch its mother like that? Is it fair on a partner to have to pick up the pieces for the depressed person? What about the company that pays their employee every month while he / she is in and out of hospital or on sick leave or just not doing their job? How does one balance these opposing ends of the scale?
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No it's not fair.

But it also wouldn't be fair if that person missed work / died because of cancer.

Nobody ever said the world was a fair place.
 
Dolby said:
Whether or not the choice is made in a rational state of mind wasn't the initial question - nor what's being discussed here. What we are discussing is whether the act itslf is.

Personally - and many agree - it is a very selfish act because of what and who you leave behind.

Adj. 1. selfish - concerned chiefly or only with yourself and your advantage to the exclusion of others

Chriskop - I do understand. Depression is a label. As is Bipolar, anxiety disorder, personailty disorders etc and listed is DSM-IV. I didn't say it wasn't real - I said it's a label and diagnosed. Ther's a difference.
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Do you not think that it is selfish on both ends?
..Wanting someone to stick around and live an awful life just so that you don't feel bad when they're gone?

We're all selfish animals, I think that part is way overplayed in cases where there are no dependents.
 
Dolby said:
Whether or not the choice is made in a rational state of mind wasn't the initial question - nor what's being discussed here. What we are discussing is whether the act itslf is.

Personally - and many agree - it is a very selfish act because of what and who you leave behind.

Adj. 1. selfish - concerned chiefly or only with yourself and your advantage to the exclusion of others

Chriskop - I do understand. Depression is a label. As is Bipolar, anxiety disorder, personailty disorders etc and listed is DSM-IV. I didn't say it wasn't real - I said it's a label and diagnosed. Ther's a difference.
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In a clear cut, black and white, text book definition answer: Sure, it is selfish ... then again, life just isn't that way is it now? ;)

Oh and just because many agree, doesn't not mean I have to. Each to their own and hence my original reply.
 
It's a pity no one will live to tell.

At a time when you commit suicide, you have already made up your mind that everything is right and there is no alternative to your current situation.

A cop friend of mine committed suicide a week ago, leaving behind his wife and two kids, now the kids will grow up without a father.

The sad part of it is that insurance doenst payout for suicide.
 
chiskop said:
No it's not fair.

But it also wouldn't be fair if that person missed work / died because of cancer.

Nobody ever said the world was a fair place.
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No, the world is not fair - agreed. The point I had kind of hoped to make though was that surely there is a case for saying sticking around is the selfish act?
 
In this day and age there is no excuse for depression that leads to suicide. There is enough medical help and medication available to counter the medical causes of depression. They could either for for the medical treatment or even get some counseling. There is always an alternative. Heck, you could even uproot yourself and go live in the mountains... or if the situation is bad enough you could go live on the streets and beg for a living. But to kill yourself is the ultimate act of selfishness and spite. It is your way of saying "you were not paying me enough attention, so this is my way of getting back at you!" even worse, they are sending the message "because you did not pay me enough attention, you must now blame yourself for my death, and carry the burdens that I was carrying as you punishment!" It is seriously cruel and mean. If you are a person who is contemplating suicide my advice is "grow a pair, put your big girl panties on and deal with the k@k that live gives you" We all have to deal with it. Some more some less. If you cannot cope, then get help. If your family does not want to help you cope, then go... get out of the situation.. .escape... move to Fiji or Botswana... but you don't have to kill yourself to escape.
 
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