Support for Israel policy

[LazyLion]

Cosatu and the Young Communist League of SA expressed support on Tuesday for the government's policy on Israel.

The Congress of SA Trade Unions said it had always encouraged and supported a stronger position regarding South Africa's relations with Israel.

"It must be made clear to everyone, particularly the Israeli Ambassador in South Africa, the SA Zionist Federation, and the [SA Jewish Board of Deputies] that South Africa's foreign policy is not accountable to them or even worse the apartheid state of Israel," Cosatu's international relations secretary Bongani Masuku said in a statement.

"It is accountable to the people of South Africa who gave an overwhelming majority to the ANC as a movement that defeated apartheid to rightfully support all other struggles against occupation, colonialism, apartheid and all forms of injustice wherever they happen."

On Friday, Nkoana-Mashabane said the country's ministers did not visit Israel and that the board knew why.

"Ministers of South Africa do not visit Israel currently. Even the Jewish Board of Deputies that we engage with here, they know why our ministers are not going to Israel," she said at a Cosatu international relations committee meeting.

She said South Africa had not been asked to "close down" diplomatic relations with Israel, but that an agreement had been made to slow down and curtail leadership contact until things began to look better.

"The struggle of the people of Palestine is our struggle," Nkoana-Mashabane said.

"The last time I saw a map of Palestine, I couldn't go to sleep... It is just dots, smaller than those of the homelands, and that broke my heart."

The SA Jewish Board of Deputies said her comments contradicted previous assurances the minister had given to the Jewish leadership that government wished to play a role in helping Israelis and Palestinians to resolve their differences.

The YCLSA said all relations with Israel should be "terminated altogether".

"South Africans, in their numbers, are anti the policies of discrimination and racism practised by Israel against the indigenous Palestinians, and, increasingly, practised by Israel against Africans," spokesman Khaya Xaba said in a statement.

"However, our position against Israel does not make us anti-Jewish."


Source : Sapa /gq/hdw/jje
Date : 05 Nov 2013 14:53

 

[Fudzy]

Does this mean those Dead Sea stalls at shopping malls are going to go?

 

[LazyLion]

Does this mean those Dead Sea stalls at shopping malls are going to go?

Will it make any difference to their business model?

 

[Fudzy]

Will it make any difference to their business model?

Not sure, just sad that the local mall's hotties were replaced with guys who unfortunately share the same over-eager intrusive sales pitches as their female counterparts, just not as well received

 

[LazyLion]

Not sure, just sad that the local mall's hotties were replaced with guys who unfortunately share the same over-eager intrusive sales pitches as their female counterparts, just not as well received

Would love to see a top down traffic flow model for those mall passages!

 

[Grant]

On Friday, Nkoana-Mashabane said the country's ministers did not visit Israel and that the board knew why.


"The last time I saw a map of Palestine, I couldn't go to sleep...

this she says while swanning past the squalor of our own townships from the rear seat of her chauffeur driven 7 series BMW

 

[Dean]

To my knowledge, the Palestinians which we know as Palestinians today are those who chose not to stay in Israel once the Israeli state was declared.
Those who did choose to stay, I believe, are known as Israeli Arabs.

Israeli Arabs seem, by definition, citizens of Israel and therefore entitled to service/protection/etc. from the Israeli government.
Palestinians on the other hand are, by choice, not citizens of Israel, and therefore much like a Namibian or Zimbabwean in South Africa, wouldn't be entitled to the same rights as an Israeli citizen.

Is this what the minister is calling Apartheid?
While the settlements are a serious matter it seems that that isn't the SA government's concern. It's more about this so-called "apartheid". Though the difference, again I stand to be corrected, between apartheid and the Israeli/Pal situation seems to be the massive fact that the Palestinians chose to not be integrated into Israel as their Israeli Arab brethren did, whereas in SA, the non-whites were not given a choice.

Baring in mind that most Palestinians seem to live in terrible conditions and one can't help but feel sorry for them, it just seems like 'apartheid' is a dangerously inaccurate description of the situation?

 

[LazyLion]

To my knowledge, the Palestinians which we know as Palestinians today are those who chose not to stay in Israel once the Israeli state was declared.
Those who did choose to stay, I believe, are known as Israeli Arabs.

Israeli Arabs seem, by definition, citizens of Israel and therefore entitled to service/protection/etc. from the Israeli government.
Palestinians on the other hand are, by choice, not citizens of Israel, and therefore much like a Namibian or Zimbabwean in South Africa, wouldn't be entitled to the same rights as an Israeli citizen.

Is this what the minister is calling Apartheid?
While the settlements are a serious matter it seems that that isn't the SA government's concern. It's more about this so-called "apartheid". Though the difference, again I stand to be corrected, between apartheid and the Israeli/Pal situation seems to be the massive fact that the Palestinians chose to not be integrated into Israel as their Israeli Arab brethren did, whereas in SA, the non-whites were not given a choice.

Baring in mind that most Palestinians seem to live in terrible conditions and one can't help but feel sorry for them, it just seems like 'apartheid' is a dangerously inaccurate description of the situation?

Ja, it's a little bit more complex than that.

Your analysis of it is a bit lacking in terms of history and you should probably go back and read some history on how the nation of Israel was founded back in 1948 and what happened just before and after that. It will give you more insight into why these Palestinians chose to not integrate with Israel.

I do think the term "Apartheid" is not applicable, but for other reasons.
They should rather coin their own descriptive term that has more relevance to their context.
Apartheid to me has South African connotations that make the term less applicable elsewhere in the world.

 

[Dean]

Your analysis of it is a bit lacking in terms of history and you should probably go back and read some history on how the nation of Israel was founded back in 1948 and what happened just before and after that. It will give you more insight into why these Palestinians chose to not integrate with Israel.

I know how it was founded - can you be a bit more specific about which events before and after other than the War of Independence?

Seems to me that the issues are more to do with religion than anything else.
Was it just that the UN was naive to believe that the native Palestinians and the Israeli Jews could co-exist peacefully under Israeli/Jewish rule?

 

[Seriously]

Cosatu and the Young Communist League of SA expressed support on Tuesday for the government's policy on Israel.

"Ministers of South Africa do not visit Israel currently. Even the Jewish Board of Deputies that we engage with here, they know why our ministers are not going to Israel," she said at a Cosatu international relations committee meeting.

You really think Israel cares or would care? They'd rather pi$$ on you and your supporting ilk for what you stand for!

 

[alloytoo]

To my knowledge, the Palestinians which we know as Palestinians today are those who chose not to stay in Israel once the Israeli state was declared.
Those who did choose to stay, I believe, are known as Israeli Arabs.

Israeli Arabs seem, by definition, citizens of Israel and therefore entitled to service/protection/etc. from the Israeli government.
Palestinians on the other hand are, by choice, not citizens of Israel, and therefore much like a Namibian or Zimbabwean in South Africa, wouldn't be entitled to the same rights as an Israeli citizen.

Is this what the minister is calling Apartheid?
While the settlements are a serious matter it seems that that isn't the SA government's concern. It's more about this so-called "apartheid". Though the difference, again I stand to be corrected, between apartheid and the Israeli/Pal situation seems to be the massive fact that the Palestinians chose to not be integrated into Israel as their Israeli Arab brethren did, whereas in SA, the non-whites were not given a choice.

Baring in mind that most Palestinians seem to live in terrible conditions and one can't help but feel sorry for them, it just seems like 'apartheid' is a dangerously inaccurate description of the situation?

I believe the "plight" of the Palestinians is mostly self inflicted.

If they diverted the resources they receive into their economy rather than focusing on bombing Israel they would have a far better time of it, and enjoy far better relations with Israel.

 

[Paul Hjul]

I believe the "plight" of the Palestinians is mostly self inflicted.

If they diverted the resources they receive into their economy rather than focusing on bombing Israel they would have a far better time of it, and enjoy far better relations with Israel.

you misunderstand the geopolitics at play. The State of Palestine was destroyed by the Egypt, Lebanon and Jordan, Israel etc ... seeking control and absorbing in territory as it suited them - the fuddy duddys of the forum should remember the United Arab Republic. The declaration of war in 1948 on Israel by the Arab League and a general thread of Arab aggression - which has generally been a dynastic feuding match as well - is a great cause for suffering by Palestinian people. Thus to blame Israel exclusively for the oppression of the Palestinian people is misguided but that simply does not justify the oppressive and apartheid policies of the Israeli government. Moreover if the context of Arab aggression and the dynastic feuding about 400 years of imperial bull**** can be seen to be festering out - again crap caused by various people underlying suffering by a persecuted ethnicity. (Humanity weeps)

The reality is that the Palestinian people have a bad relationship with Israel because Israel refuses to recognize the Palestinian people with self-determination and the trappings of national identity instead seeing them as second class Arabs. The Palestinian people in turn see Israel as aggressors and so the cycle to violence starts off.

 

[Fudzy]

The reality is that the Palestinian people have a bad relationship with Israel because Israel refuses to recognize the Palestinian people with self-determination and the trappings of national identity instead seeing them as second class Arabs. The Palestinian people in turn see Israel as aggressors and so the cycle to violence starts off.

The problem though is the leading political group in Palestine, from what I'm lead to believe from users here as well as jpost's unbiased opinion is that they are not interested in being recognized either.

 

[marine1]

It amazes me, the ANC trying to take a moral high ground? Please man what a joke.
What about Zim? When the ANC act on that then maybe I will listen
What about our relationship with Iran? Iraq during the oil embargo, Syria, etc etc
Seems the ANC are only interested in pleasing the Arab countries.
No minister I have news for you, it does make you anti Jewish as Israel is the Jewish state.

 

[marine1]

The reality is that the Palestinian people have a bad relationship with Israel because Israel refuses to recognize the Palestinian people with self-determination and the trappings of national identity instead seeing them as second class Arabs. The Palestinian people in turn see Israel as aggressors and so the cycle to violence starts off.

Rubbish, it is because at every turn when Israel tried for peace, these animals keep launching rockets into Israel and thus derail any peace. Its that simple.
As Gold Meir said: "We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us.”

 

[Paul Hjul]

The problem though is the leading political group in Palestine, from what I'm lead to believe from users here as well as jpost's unbiased opinion is that they are not interested in being recognized either.

I assume you mean Hamas?
Little bit more complicated than that - being Arabic is an integral component of Palestinian identity so the PLO-esque and Fatah approach towards asserting Palestinian nationality runs into problems
Add religious issues (secular Palestinian state vs an Islamic Palestinian state) and the ultra-imperialist House al Saud and you have a cocktail of disaster coming in

 

[Paul Hjul]

Rubbish, it is because at every turn when Israel tried for peace, these animals keep launching rockets into Israel and thus derail any peace. Its that simple.
As Gold Meir said: "We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us.”

You are confusing hysteria induces propoganda with fact - Goebbels will be so proud

Calling Palestinian people "animals" is the height of Antisemitism if you know what a Semite is.

 

[nivek]

No surprises here, the ANC and COSATU are just doing what the arab world generally does, using the Palestinians for political gain..
The local muslim community can contribute quite a few votes nextyear

 

[marine1]

You are confusing hysteria induces propoganda with fact - Goebbels will be so proud

Calling Palestinian people "animals" is the height of Antisemitism if you know what a Semite is.

Tell me when last were you in Israel?

 

[LazyLion]

You are confusing hysteria induces propoganda with fact - Goebbels will be so proud

Calling Palestinian people "animals" is the height of Antisemitism if you know what a Semite is.

I'm just mad at him for insulting the animals.