Switching your geyser off, does it save money?

Also, if your geyser is always on and not properly insulated your heat loss and therefore your electricity bill will be higher. Since Newton's law of cooling states that the rate heat loss is proportional the temperature difference (between the geyser and the ambient air).
 
Interesting take... I wonder how much damage do you incur each time you shower then... essentially flooding the geyser with cold water, as opposed to letting it cool down over hours during the day? Or is there something I'm missing?

Also... Eskom seems to have a few thoughts on this topic as well: http://www.eskom.co.za/content/DSM_0003FactFictGeyRev2~1.pdf

EDIT: Reading my posts again, they seem unusually harsh. I'm not intentionally yanking chains today. Perhaps I should re-word them.. that's too much effort for now though.

Nah, no need it was a comment in jest. Anyway showering until the geyser is cold (that's what I do too :) ) is a wasteful habit. You only need to wet your body, soap and rinse. That takes a few minutes.

So that just brings it back to the point, the geyser's contribution to you energy needs is mostly based on consumption + heat losses. The actual ratio of consumption/heat losses will determine if the switching off the geyser will realize into real savings.
 
Yes.

We used to run through units every day like there was no tomorrow. We started switching off the geyser and noticed a vast improvement on the amounts of units we saved. When we switch on the geyser now, it takes about 4 - 5 units within the first half hour/hour. We have our geyser on for about 2 - 3 hours a day and that's if we forget to switch it off.
 
Yes.

We used to run through units every day like there was no tomorrow. We started switching off the geyser and noticed a vast improvement on the amounts of units we saved. When we switch on the geyser now, it takes about 4 - 5 units within the first half hour/hour. We have our geyser on for about 2 - 3 hours a day and that's if we forget to switch it off.

So you use a lower volume of hot water and only when really needed, that translates in the real saving not the normal heat losses. unless you have an ancient geyser of course.
 
Read here.

http://90by2030.wordpress.com/2010/06/25/your-geyser-–-does-it-help-to-turn-it-off-and-on/

So, let’s get back to this question of switching the geyser off. The two main arguments for and against switching off the geyser are as follows:

1) Switching your geyser off will prevent the element coming on to maintain the set temperature during the times it is not being used, and as such you will save energy

2) If you switch the geyser off, the water inside loses heat and when you eventually turn it on again, it has to heat the water from a much lower temperature to get to the set point, which uses more energy than coming on periodically to keep it at temperature

The reason there is so much disagreement on this issue is that both arguments are correct to a certain extent. So let’s try to sort fact from fiction:

The extent of heat loss differs from geyser to geyser, and the usage patterns in households differ drastically. We can go into the principles of thermodynamics, and the law of conservation of energy, but the fact is that the potential saving depends completely on your specific geyser and pattern of use.
There are many documented studies available on the merits of switching off your geyser, some of which have been carried out in labs by scientists, and some by regular people in their own homes. The results of these tests show savings from 2% to 40%. The obvious problem with these tests is that the playing field is not level, which is essential for good science. Some household have two people only showering in the morning, and some households have two people showering in the morning and two in the evening. Some geysers are newer, or better insulated. Some of the reported savings are simply a result of a placebo-like effect, i.e. because you are conscious of your hot water use, you use less hot water. Simply reading about somebody’s savings should not be a good enough reason to believe the same would apply to your house.
The water you use needs to be replaced and get heated up again, so switching your geyser on and off will never reduce this basic amount of energy needed. So, the only time you are wasting energy is during the period where the water has reached its set temperature and starts decreasing slowly due to that heat dissipating into the environment. This is more the case with old geysers, where the insulation is less effective.
Even if your geyser and piping were perfectly insulated, you could not make any savings at all by switching off because you are only using more energy to heat the water you have emptied out of the geyser.
Three things that affect geyser power consumption are
how much hot water you use
how often it’s used and
the condition of your geyser.
It’s obvious that there is no universal right or wrong here, since all of these factors can be different in every situation. So instead of picking a side on these points, I have decided to rather explain how to make real savings, and to make a valid difference with your geyser usage. I would advise the reader to simply think about how you use hot water:

Try to use less water – Shower rather than bath, shower for shorter periods and don’t use hot water for anything other than showering (Definitely not for washing hands!).
Turn the geyser off only when you will be away for longer than 1 day.
Make sure your geyser and pipes are properly insulated.
If you have an old geyser, consider upgrading, or even better, consider a solar water heater.
These measures can reduce the electricity consumption of your geyser, but I feel there is a much more important issue here. I think the most important part of this discussion is not really about how much electricity can be saved by controlling the use of your geyser, because I believe this is minimal and relatively useless when looking at the bigger picture.

What I believe to be a more important contribution you can make is reducing the load on the national electricity grid during peak periods. A major problem with our electricity supply at the moment is not necessarily that we can’t meet the demand. The problem is we are struggling to meet the peak demand.

Peak demand occurs between 6am and 9am and between 5pm and 9pm, when most of the population are either getting ready for work or getting back from work. A large part of Eskom’s new build program is to meet peak demand, so to make a real difference to electricity usage in South Africa (probably a bit more worthwhile than a difference of R30 in your pocket?) you should try to ensure your geyser is off during peak periods. This is possible without affecting your hot water needs or shower time. The easiest would be to install a controller, where you program the times in, similar to your irrigation system or pool pump and program it to turn on between 3am and 5am. This ensures you have hot water in the morning and has not added demand during peak periods. The same for the evening period if you shower at night. Program it to turn on between 3pm and 5pm. The water will be hot all evening.

So, in conclusion, the benefits in terms of actual electricity savings achievable by controlling your geyser operating times in order to save yourself some money is inconsequential when compared to the difference that could be made by changing the period of use. The residential sector makes up a large part of the electricity demand in South Africa, and the hot water portion of this is significant. Reducing use during peak periods will not only help alleviate those pesky blackouts, but also reduce the need for new power stations, and therefore make a truly meaningful contribution to preservation of the environment.
 
Cooling down also creates vacuum and if the vacuum breaker is ineffective the above stresses is even worse.

That cannot happen unless you isolate the geyser from the street mains before cooling begins. When the volume of the water reduces due to cooling, the street pressure will cause a small inflow of cold water to equalize the tank pressure with the street pressure. If a proper pressure control valve is installed downstream, it will also maintain the tank at the pressure of the valve, e.g. 400KPa.

The only time the vacuum breaker comes into play is if the water is drawn out faster than the street mains can replace it, then it pops open to let air in to equalize the pressure. If you are sucking air regularly through the breakers, consider increasing either the bore of the inlet pipe or changing the pressure control valve to a higher one if the geyser is rated for it.
 
People on prepaid electricity, where the consumption is really noticeable, insist that switching the geyser off results in a huge saving.

I'm not on prepaid, but because I am often away over weekends, I have started switching my geyser off on Thursday, before I shower, and only on again on Monday evening - this seems to result in a noticeable saving.
 
Under normal circumstances your geyser will switch off until it goes below a certain temperature, then switch on and reach the desired temperature, after which it will switch off again. Imagine this looking like a sinusoidal wave (temperature versus time).

If you switch your geyser off and it cools down for 12h-odd, the amount of energy you spend (in electricity) is more than what you would use if you let the thermostat control it. It comes down to simple physics.

:cry: Just when I thought people understood.

How can it possibly take more energy to heat a body of water from room temperature to a set temperature, then to constantly keep it at that temperature, when considering the following:

- When water cools, it does so non-linearly.. meaning that as it cools, it looses energy at a slower rate. So at its peak temperature it is loosing its highest amount of energy per unit time. If you keep it there, it will loose more energy over the day.

- Once it reaches room temperature, it won't cool further, meaning that if you keep it warm, you are continually using more energy, while a cold body of water is not using that same energy.

- The specific heat of water is around 4.185 kJ/kgK at 60 Celcius, and 4.183 kJ/kgK at 20 Celcius. This means that when water is hotter, it takes more energy to heat (slightly, but it does). Keeping the geyser on then clearly has to mean that it takes more energy to keep hot vs the amount used to catch up again.

Again, my overall stance here is geyser blanket, and no switching because the saving would be minimal... but this post had to go answered.
 
Nah, no need it was a comment in jest. Anyway showering until the geyser is cold (that's what I do too :) ) is a wasteful habit. You only need to wet your body, soap and rinse. That takes a few minutes.

So that just brings it back to the point, the geyser's contribution to you energy needs is mostly based on consumption + heat losses. The actual ratio of consumption/heat losses will determine if the switching off the geyser will realize into real savings.

This... precisely. Calculating the heat loss is the big factor here. I think the Op's heat loss is a little high because he says that his water is cold when he wants to shower. This should not be the case.
 
So you use a lower volume of hot water and only when really needed, that translates in the real saving not the normal heat losses. unless you have an ancient geyser of course.

we on prepaid and within half an hour the water is hot and that is when it was off for about 8 or so hours.. We have a newish geyser that stands outside.
 
I'm wondering whether using a trip switch as an on/off switch can damage it?

I've looked at several data sheets and the operational cycle is between 4000 and 10000 mechanical switchings, so while it might reduce the device life, it would take a decade or more to wear it out.
 
Also the lifespan of the geyser. The cooling heating place stress on the welding joints creating premature failures. Cooling down also creates vacuum and if the vacuum breaker is ineffective the above stresses is even worse.

I have spoken to various plumbers. they all say it is bad for the geysers.

And as an interesting side note: i knew a few people who've changed their broken geysers in the last 2 years. they were all people who switched off. 2 people had to replace twice.

Going away for a week or 2 it is ok to turn off as you're not turning on/off daily & that can save you money..
 
I got a 300L solar geyser installed. Everyone happy. Eskom gets what they want and I get a significantly reduced bill.
 
Under normal circumstances your geyser will switch off until it goes below a certain temperature, then switch on and reach the desired temperature, after which it will switch off again. Imagine this looking like a sinusoidal wave (temperature versus time).

If you switch your geyser off and it cools down for 12h-odd, the amount of energy you spend (in electricity) is more than what you would use if you let the thermostat control it. It comes down to simple physics.

Simple physics? So then how did you get it so wrong?

Letting x amount of water heat up 5°C 5 times will use up the same amount of energy as heating it up once by 25°C once. This is the simplfied version... If you really get into the physics... the heat it up once method will use less energy because if you let your geyser rest for extended periods of time, it gets closer to ambient, and cools slower, hence loses energy slower. Meanwhile, the water thats maintained at a high temperature cools fast, since its far from ambient temp, hence loses energy faster. Its all about specific heat.
And this does not even consider that after a long amount of time (depending on your insulation) a switched off geyser basically "stops" losing energy because its bery close ambient

edit: I see shogun at least actually understands the physics
 
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we had a timer on our geyser ( cost a arm and a foot) geyser was on from 4pm - 9 pm , and put that insulation on the geyser.. and we saved jack shyte on our electricity
 
Simple physics? So then how did you get it so wrong?

Letting x amount of water heat up 5°C 5 times will use up the same amount of energy as heating it up once by 25°C once. This is the simplfied version... If you really get into the physics... the heat it up once method will use less energy because if you let your geyser rest for extended periods of time, it gets closer to ambient, and cools slower, hence loses energy slower. Meanwhile, the water thats maintained at a high temperature cools fast, since its far from ambient temp, hence loses energy faster. Its all about specific heat.
And this does not even consider that after a long amount of time (depending on your insulation) a switched off geyser basically "stops" losing energy because its bery close ambient

edit: I see shogun at least actually understands the physics

Yeah, I was reading your post going... he's got it... he's got it!
 
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