TCP/IP compatible HDMI extenders messing up network

[Segg]

Hi There Knowledgeable Forumites

I purchased the TCP/IP compatible HDMI extenders from HD cabling and am having an issue with the network

When both units are connected and transmit the signal they do so well, however they pretty much crash my network. All internet connectivity comes to a halt, and any devices trying to connect to the network aren't assigned an IP address and can't connect. Computers with an assigned address can still communicate with one another and I can also stream HD video's between them without causing any interruptions to the stream on either the PC's or the extenders (Even when my network is only at 100mbps).

Has anyone else come across this problem? I'm about to take them back and swap them out for the versions with the IR blaster so I can replace the coax cable leading into the required room with some Ethernet cable.

It appears their website is down so here is a pic of what they look like, and another sites description



My topology



The ping when both units are attached



The ping when just the transmitter is attached (receiver unplugged)



I have tried changing the router's IP addresses, from 10.0.0.1 to 10.0.0.100, 10.0.0.2 to 10.0.0.101 and so forth. This made no difference, I even upgraded the main switch to 1000mbps, I even plugged the receiver unit in directly to the 1000mbps switch (just easier as its right next to my PC ) but this also made no difference

Any help will be greatly appreciated as I would love to avoid laying cable and traveling back to centurion

 

[PsyWulf]

Can the computers at the adsl router ping the router?

How does the network switches' activity lights look? Might be a broadcast flood,since HDMI over IP is likely doing Multicast that can quickly grind many systems to a halt

*edit found this that might help explain some of it http://www.black-box.de/en-de/page/6074/multicasting-video-over-a-lan

Solutions? Segment the network or use L3 switching

 

[Segg]

Can the computers at the adsl router ping the router?

How does the network switches' activity lights look? Might be a broadcast flood,since HDMI over IP is likely doing Multicast that can quickly grind many systems to a halt

*edit found this that might help explain some of it http://www.black-box.de/en-de/page/6074/multicasting-video-over-a-lan

Solutions? Segment the network or use L3 switching

How would I go about segmenting the network? I've only got a single port DSL router which assigns all the IP addresses, and manages the network in that regard, all my switches are bog standard dumb switches. I've tried setting it to IGMP v3 from v2 and changing the dynamic route to RIP2-M from RIP2-B

As for the pings, it's as you see in the screen shots, now and again it'll reply, I think you're correct in saying they are overwhelming the network

 

[The_Unbeliever]

FWIW you may have a bottleneck - the two 100mbps switches is getting overloaded probably. Try connecting both HDMI devices to the Gig switch and see if it resolves the issue?

OR :


Can you connect the HDMI extenders directly to each other?

What I would've done is (segmenting the network) :

1. Procure a small 8-port gigabit switch.
2. Install Smoothwall/pfSense on a Pentium3 (or equivalent) box with three NIC's
3. First NIC goes to ADSL router (bridged mode)
4. Second NIC is configured as GREEN, goes to your normal network
5. Third NIC is configured as PURPLE or OPTional(pfSense) with separate DHCP scope and goes to the 8-port Gig switch, where both HDMI extenders is plugged in.

 

[Segg]

FWIW you may have a bottleneck - the two 100mbps switches is getting overloaded probably. Try connecting both HDMI devices to the Gig switch and see if it resolves the issue?

Tried this and unfortunately the issue still remains

Can you connect the HDMI extenders directly to each other?

Yes, luckily I can, however this means laying some CAT5e cable to the most inaccessible room in the house! I'm probably going to land up changing these units for the one's with the remote blaster and replace the existing coax cable so I can still change channels

What I would've done is (segmenting the network) :

1. Procure a small 8-port gigabit switch.
2. Install Smoothwall/pfSense on a Pentium3 (or equivalent) box with three NIC's
3. First NIC goes to ADSL router (bridged mode)
4. Second NIC is configured as GREEN, goes to your normal network
5. Third NIC is configured as PURPLE or OPTional(pfSense) with separate DHCP scope and goes to the 8-port Gig switch, where both HDMI extenders is plugged in.

I would love to give this a bash (always wanted to try something like this) but a huge problem for me is how inaccessible my switches are, the gigabit switch dwells in the ceiling with cables branching out to the various routers, computers and switches, so this would require rewiring about half the network





Thanks for the help so far guys! This is also a good learning experience for me

 

[ToxicBunny]

**EDIT**

Ok, looks like maybe they can..

Personally I'd never do this over a already used network.. its just asking for trouble... the bandwidth used will flood the network.

 

[w1z4rd]

Are you not feeding the network back into itself with those transmitters. You have a link between the two switches and then a 2nd link with the two transmitters. You will blow ports on your switch if you are not careful.

I know if you take a network cable and plug in one side to one port on a switch and the other into another port on the switch you can blow the ports. Are you not effectively doing the same thing here but on a larger scale?

Your topology map is missing the line between the transmitter and the receiver.Which shows your network feeding back into itself.

I have just come back from a function a little drunk so I could be totally off the mark

 

[Segg]

Yea I'm pretty sure I'm not doing that, the switches just distribute the network when there are more devices than cables in any position

 

[chrisc]

I found the HDMI extenders using 2 UTP cables to offer less interference than a model using one. However, you can now get 20m HDMI cables which provide a faster handshake, so I have been replacing the extenders with these where possible

 

[Segg]

I found the HDMI extenders using 2 UTP cables to offer less interference than a model using one. However, you can now get 20m HDMI cables which provide a faster handshake, so I have been replacing the extenders with these where possible

Do those use TCPIP? as on the model I'm using the second you plug them in or turn them on you get picture, and the quality is superb

 

[ToxicBunny]

I think ultimately your issue is purely the 100mbps switches.. they're getting overloaded with the traffic that the extender is chucking onto the network.

 

[Segg]

I think ultimately your issue is purely the 100mbps switches.. they're getting overloaded with the traffic that the extender is chucking onto the network.

The thing is when every switch was at 100mbps the units worked fine and computers could stream HD content to one another perfectly, it's just the router that gives trouble, not assigning IP addresses and providing an Internet connection.

I'm awaiting feedback from HD cabling on the issue at this time

 

[ToxicBunny]

The thing is when every switch was at 100mbps the units worked fine and computers could stream HD content to one another perfectly, it's just the router that gives trouble, not assigning IP addresses and providing an Internet connection.

I'm awaiting feedback from HD cabling on the issue at this time

Everything that was connected to the network, i would assume would still work.. any new connections would just get ignored due to the pure volume of traffic that is flowing through the network.....

I also am not sure how those HDMI extenders handle going through 3 switches. since I'm not sure what kind of packet tagging etc they do on the tcp/ip packets... you may find that after the first switch it ends up just being a broadcast packet of some kind...

 

[ToxicBunny]

This is the part that says to me your switching fabric is getting mangled...

A VLAN is not mandatory but recommended when limiting broadcasting traffic to specific ports or wired networks only. If a dedicated switch is installed for the video / audio then VLAN's are not needed.

 

[Hamish McPanji]

As far as I am aware those HDMI extenders are meant to be connected point to point and not through multiple switches

 

[ToxicBunny]

As far as I am aware those HDMI extenders are meant to be connected point to point and not through multiple switches

The basic ones yes..

But the one that Segg has, is meant to also be used on existing LAN infrastructure... but it seems to be broadcast traffic, which will overload a basic home network quite quickly....

 

[Segg]

The basic ones yes..

But the one that Segg has, is meant to also be used on existing LAN infrastructure... but it seems to be broadcast traffic, which will overload a basic home network quite quickly....

I think you're right, since changing my existing setup is way too much effort, I'm probably going to end up replacing an old coax cable...

In your opinion would switching out the gigabit switch with a "smart" web managed switch possibly resolve the issue?

 

[ToxicBunny]

I think you're right, since changing my existing setup is way too much effort, I'm probably going to end up replacing an old coax cable...

In your opinion would switching out the gigabit switch with a "smart" web managed switch possibly resolve the issue?

If you can VLAN tag ports accurately and such. then possibly yes.... but I'm not sure its worth the investment... I would probably by an unmanaged switch and then just run new networking cable purely for the AV distribution stuff.

 

[Segg]

If you can VLAN tag ports accurately and such. then possibly yes.... but I'm not sure its worth the investment... I would probably by an unmanaged switch and then just run new networking cable purely for the AV distribution stuff.

Yea, definitely the better option imo

 

[ToxicBunny]

Yea, definitely the better option imo

Its precisely what I'm doing at home.. then at least I know the the 2 things are physically seperate and won't screw with each other