Ted Lassoes the Sun!

[TedLasso]

Well, hope that's a cool title!

Finally starting on my reducing independence from Eskom Journey. As usual, while I have read most threads and most installs, I have questions and I know you all going to help me. I think the responses from everyone in their threads over the past few years @AchmatK , @RonSwanson , @Mike Hoxbig , @Tinuva , @itareanlnotani and a whole bunch of others that I can't recall right now have helped.

Starting out: My install is not going to be my dream installation - but I am giving myself the opportunity to start and adapt as time goes on. Also we will most likely be emigrating within 2 years so perhaps not worth investing too much.

The dream installation was going to be a Sunsynk 8KVA Inverter, with Hubble AM2 batteries, and a 10Kwp solar panel array, all tied into HA.

The reality is going to be (Phase 1)
1. 5KW RCT Inverter (I got a free one (brand new but old) RCT-5000MK
2. 1 x Hubble AM2 battery (going to expand to 3-4 as time goes on if we don't emigrate)

This was going to be phase 2 (two months later) but can do it immediately since I don't have to spend approx 35-38K on a sunsynk inverter.
3. 10 x JA 500W Solar Panels mounted on north facing roof.

Base load stats (over last three years): Average 475w day time , 650w night time. I got everything on timers and know/control high draw appliances (geysers, pool pump, heat pump, Dishwasher, Washing Machine with Home Assistant). Max load is about 4-5Kw if ever, but we can control further with smart automation and change of habits which is going to mandatory.

Outcomes Desired :

• Live normally, and use automation to stay within constraints of system. E.g. if on Inverter/Batteries, and base load is 3KVA, and someone turns on oven, don't allow it and notify via notification that system is constrained currently
• Stop relying on Eskom completely if possible.

The Challenges/ Problems:
While I have roofing sorted for solar panels, the location of my Inverter and batteries is a problem. The DB is in the passage and there is no way I am mounting anything there. DB is also full up so no space for anything else. A house built in the 80s.

Possible location is to place in garage but it's too hot in there and cable runs to connect back to main DB is going about 20m away.

We found incoming feed from Eskom side in our patio. Sparky recommended that we mount stuff in the Patio (which is under cover). This solves some issues:- Easy to reroute incoming feed into Inverter and then back to DB. Patio seems to be winning for now because :

1. it is cooler but exposed to elements in terms of dust and wind so a ventilated cupboard will be mandatory to hide it all . Two reasons for hiding it: Prying eyes as it would face the front boundary wall - which while very high (>2m) is just another challenge for a motivated person and rodents who may like the warmth it offers.
2. Easy to add batteries if we need (at least 50cm above the ground) and support
3. Ability to swap out RCT inverter with Sunsynk will be factored into designed
4. It being outside two bedrooms, will not cause a lot of noise
5. If anything goes kaboom, it will happen outside.

Other things I will be doing as part of the initial install

1. Moving the DB Circuit Breakers for Geysers, Pool Pump and Kitchen Stove, and Kitchen Plugs into it's own DB outside next to the inverter (no space in main DB). It will still be on inverter (essential side) but the DB switches will be replaced by CBI Astute. I will then remove the SONOFF POW R2/R3 in the roofs where I am using them . The primary reason is to keep the high draw stuff together and having them at ground level gives me confidence I don't need to go into a roof should they get borked. I ended up spending one weekend reconfiguring my SONOFFs inside the roof with a laptop, when Eskom had an issue and incoming feed bounced lots in 10 seconds, causing all my SONOFF devices to think I needed them back in factory mode! FWIW, this setting in Tasmota prevents this - setoption 65 1 from happening
2. Making provision for the solar panels, MPPT and four batteries in the cupboard design.
3. A plug on the supply side, as I am with Eskom prepaid and will need to load units, etc. i will mount this Landgrys unit in the cupboard outside.

So some initial questions for those that know :-

1) Mounting Inverter and batteries outside - a good idea or bad? Risk of sideways rain is a possibility. For security, I will have a roboguard beam permanently armed monitoring the area. We don't use the patio daily so I and response company will be notified if anybody unknown comes within 10m of the patio.

2) I see that the RCT inverter can be connected to HA. I've installed the software from HACs, but what extra hardware do I need it connected to the network? I can't find any manual for the RCT-5000MKS (it's a 5-6 year old inverter - but brand new). Does anyone have the guide for it? I really do hope it supports blending- Sparky said it does but I need to know for working out how to size the arrays.

3) Buying the Hubble AM2's if I can get it stock. Probably from PowerForum Store or can @DuracellBunny help out here? Do I need a RIOT (if I understand correctly to monitor batteries?)



There will be more questions of course, but happy to be challenged or given other options to consider.

 

[RonSwanson]

Finally starting on my reducing independence from Eskom Journey. As usual, while I have read most threads and most installs, I have questions and I know you all going to help me. I think the responses from everyone in their threads over the past few years @AchmatK , @RonSwanson , @Mike Hoxbig , @Tinuva , @itareanlnotani and a whole bunch of others that I can't recall right now have helped.

Are we being invited to join Diamond Dogs?

OoooooooWoooWooooooWooooooo

 

[TedLasso]

Yes why not! But in this case, I am Roy Kent and need all the help I can get - LOL

 

[DapperDanMan]

Well, hope that's a cool title!

 

[RonSwanson]

we will most likely be emigrating within 2 years so perhaps not worth investing too much

I disagree. My estimates put the fixing of Eskom at a far greater timeline than 2 years. My argument is that even if they were to solve all of their internal sabotage problems and political problems (like Gweezy's infactuation with coal BEE kickbacks) overnight, which they will never do, I estimate that it will be 8-12 years before we see reliable electricity again.

A home that has provision for a reliable, well thought out and provisioned alternate supply is therefore imminently more marketable than one that does not, so you will definitely be able to recoup expenditure under 250 - 300K (depending on the intrinsic home value of course).

While I have roofing sorted for solar panels, the location of my Inverter and batteries is a problem. The DB is in the passage and there is no way I am mounting anything there. DB is also full up so no space for anything else. A house built in the 80s.

The distance between batteries and inverter matters because it is DC. The distance of the inverter to DB isn't really an issue because it's AC. That is, unless you consider that a Sunsynk's CT coil's distance is limited to 20m (25-30, maybe 35m at a push), but that is also dependent on where the municipal feed comes in, so it may be a worthwhile exercise to revisit that thought based on where the incoming wiring comes into the home.

1) Mounting Inverter and batteries outside - a good idea or bad? Risk of sideways rain is a possibility. For security, I will have a roboguard beam permanently armed monitoring the area. We don't use the patio daily so I and response company will be notified if anybody unknown comes within 10m of the patio.

IMHO this is not great due to risk of theft, as well as water ingress, and you have pointed out both. For the first issue, you will need far more than just a beam, you will need the mounting brackets and screws to be strengthened (for example use tamper proof screws, or at least a ball bearing hammered into the inside of a hex nut). You would want potential thieves to come prepared with a battery powered angle grinder and for them to take a lot of time and make much noise.

So on security, it is not impossible for a patio install, but better to consider relocation. What the eyes cannot see, the heart cannot covet, and on water ingress, I don't know the RCT-5000MKS, but looking at this, it doesn't seem to be IP rated, neither are the Hubble Am2s. The Sunsynk inverters have an IP65 rating, so they can take water jets in any direction.

2) I see that the RCT inverter can be connected to HA. I've installed the software from HACs, but what extra hardware do I need it connected to the network? I can't find any manual for the RCT-5000MKS (it's a 5-6 year old inverter - but brand new). Does anyone have the guide for it? I really do hope it supports blending- Sparky said it does but I need to know for working out how to size the arrays.

HA? HACs? Not sure what this is. I don't know the RCT-5000MKS, but looking at this, it seems to be an Axpert-type 4kW inverter with a high current MPPT (max 3KwP). Fine to start out with it for backup, if your backup loads are under 4K, and fine for solar if you don't mind an array of under 3K. The 5.5K Sunsynk will do 5.5K, and 6.4K solar, amongst a whole lot of other party tricks.

3) Buying the Hubble AM2's if I can get it stock. Probably from PowerForum Store or can @DuracellBunny help out here? Do I need a RIOT (if I understand correctly to monitor batteries?)

I'd recommend a RIOT if you go for AM-2s, it costs 3k more once-off and you can monitor all AM-2 batteries, as well as allow Hubble support to remotely check them out if needed. Particularly useful if you have installed extra anti-theft measures and if you do not want to remove them in event of a warranty claim or troubleshooting exercise.

 

[TedLasso]

I disagree. My estimates put the fixing of Eskom at a far greater timeline than 2 years. My argument is that even if they were to solve all of their internal sabotage problems and political problems (like Gweezy's infactuation with coal BEE kickbacks) overnight, which they will never do, I estimate that it will be 8-12 years before we see reliable electricity again.

A home that has provision for a reliable, well thought out and provisioned alternate supply is therefore imminently more marketable than one that does not, so you will definitely be able to recoup expenditure under 250 - 300K (depending on the intrinsic home value of course).

Indeed and this is why I have been vacillating for so long. Previously, the investment in solar/inverter would not have been a selling factor in the house but has to be now. I've read many previous posts here where if buyer wants it, asking price goes up by XXX or the seller takes it all out.

The distance between batteries and inverter matters because it is DC. The distance of the inverter to DB isn't really an issue because it's AC. That is, unless you consider that a Sunsynk's CT coil's distance is limited to 20m (25-30, maybe 35m at a push), but that is also dependent on where the municipal feed comes in, so it may be a worthwhile exercise to revisit that thought based on where the incoming wiring comes into the home

Great point. I knew/know DC cables need to be as short as possible hence the idea to put inverter and batteries in Patio next to incoming feed. CT Coil could be a problem if I end up mounting in Garage (still my preferred choice, but then with a one off expense to extend the AC cables - which I am happy to do). Distance should be about 15-20m but they

Just concerned that my garage gets super hot - it's like a magic room in the way it generates heat (compared to rest of house) - and it's not the geyser in the garage roof doing it - I checked. Nonetheless having batteries in there in a room that is on average 18 degrees in winter and more 24 degrees in summer ... then again if I have free electricity then putting an A/C in the vicinity could solve the problem when temps go high. (but I am not trying to increase base load for no reason)

IMHO this is not great due to risk of theft, as well as water ingress, and you have pointed out both. For the first issue, you will need far more than just a beam, you will need the mounting brackets and screws to be strengthened (for example use tamper proof screws, or at least a ball bearing hammered into the inside of a hex nut). You would want potential thieves to come prepared with a battery powered angle grinder and for them to take a lot of time and make much noise.

So on security, it is not impossible for a patio install, but better to consider relocation. What the eyes cannot see, the heart cannot covet, and on water ingress, I don't know the RCT-5000MKS, but looking at this, it doesn't seem to be IP rated, neither are the Hubble Am2s. The Sunsynk inverters have an IP65 rating, so they can take water jets in any direction.

I think I was waiting for you to knock sense into me. I already told the sparky yesterday that I was thinking Garage would be better (and he came back that is will cost more).

So I am veering back to place everything in garage especially re water ingress and getting a better inverter. For the other bits, it would be difficult for them to know it's out there once I put a cupboard. It's a 2m wall on muncipal side but nearly 2.4m drop on the inside (a bit of a steep property) so good luck to them - but their motivation has no bounds.

I have a geyser in the garage but got a tray underneath it so even if it all went pear shaped, water would go down the walls but hopefully electrics would be spared.

HA? HACs? Not sure what this is. I don't know the RCT-5000MKS, but looking at this, it seems to be an Axpert-type 4kW inverter with a high current MPPT (max 3KwP). Fine to start out with it for backup, if your backup loads are under 4K, and fine for solar if you don't mind an array of under 3K. The 5.5K Sunsynk will do 5.5K, and 6.4K solar, amongst a whole lot of other party tricks

Home Assistant and HACS is the Home Assistant Community store where someone wrote an integration to get the data from the RCT into HA for the magic to then happen with automation.

I think I may need to motivate to the SHE-E-O for the 5.5K Sunsynk rather ( I was hoping for the 8) but then we are good for a long time regardless of whether we stay or go. Thankfully our utilisation is not crazy (average 620kWh a month) . I don't intend to increase it for no reason but maybe run the pool pump (with it's heating panels more often if there is excess generation capacity to be had).

Thanks again. Back to the drawing board for some bits!

 

[TedLasso]

Ooh ... saw this on the CBI website ... why replace the DB switches with CBI astutes, when I can just replace the 30A switches at the edge i.e. at the kitchen stove or in the roof for the geysers ... I have rock solid WiFi so coverage is not going to be a problem. This will mean I can keep my existing DB as is!

While the sonoff's have not given me any problems driving 3Kw and 2Kw geyser elements and 1.5Kw Heat Pump, ts, nice to have piece of mind that the kit is all locally certified and rater for higher loads. Will also get sparky to do this work - I don't want to do it.

CBi Astute Smart Isolator (ASI) | CBI-electric (Circuit Breaker Industries)

Download the CBI Home App on the App Store or on Google Play! Instruction Manual or YouTube Programming Videos Visit the Astute Support Hub or CBI Forum for any questions about the Astute Range (Looking for the Astute Smart Controller / ASC , Astute Smart Plug / ASP , Astute Smart Plug Dedicated...

cbi-lowvoltage.co.za

It's Tuya but I have local control via Home Assistant for some other bulbs so should they will easily come in for management.

Anybody using these?

 

[Gielie01]

2) I see that the RCT inverter can be connected to HA. I've installed the software from HACs, but what extra hardware do I need it connected to the network? I can't find any manual for the RCT-5000MKS (it's a 5-6 year old inverter - but brand new). Does anyone have the guide for it? I really do hope it supports blending- Sparky said it does but I need to know for working out how to size the arrays.

This looks like an axpert clone, similar to the one i have. I run a Kodak version of this inverter, and you require a serial interface to talk to HA. I built one using a d1 mini and a rs232 converter.
@Priapus uses the same inverter and uses a rapberry pi and ICC to communicate with the inverter, also has it integrated with HA.

You can ask @Priapus but im sure his response will be similar to mine. We bought these unit some time ago, before Sunsynk was as popular as it is now. Blending is more important than you realize or think it is (The axpert does not blend Solar and Grid feeds, pnly the Axpert KING does). Id swap to a sunsynk if my budget allowed in a heartbeat. As @RonSwanson said, makes for a great backup inverter, I used mine for pure backup for a year prior to adding panels to it. But without some form of smart controll (HA) it is not well suited to a solar installation. I use more than 10 automations to control mine.

The factory firmware has basic support for "priority" input, and basically is just telling it to use the grid or Solar/batteries. And that works as a very basic form of control, itl will also switch from battery/solar once the batteries are depleted based on settings in the firmware and switch back once they have charged.

You need to however remember that with any install, you need to consider bad/crappy days/weather. Rain and all that goes along with "no sun"

If you have any questions or need more info, give me a shout and ill answer anything I can.

 

[Paul_S]

I also have a challenge when I decide to pull the trigger on a solar installation. My DB board is in the house and I have a flat roof which I am not willing to open. This means that I can't split the loads at the DB and there is no space in the house for a noisy inverter. My garage is also too hot.

My plan is to still install in the garage but use a cabinet or DIY enclosure with a thermostatically controlled fan which will blow filtered air from the outside into the enclosure. That takes care of the heat issue and keeps the noise out of the house and water ingress is also not a problem.

For the inability to split loads I'll put the entire DB on the essential load of the inverter(s) and just re-route the municipal supply to the inverter(s) in the garage first instead of to the house DB. Then lay a new armour cable from the inverter to the house. The DC cabling from the panels is a longer run of about 20 meters but that's not too bad as the voltages are fairly high (350 to 450V) so the cabling doesn't need to be very thick. The most critical is low voltage and high current like the batteries to inverter. That cabling needs to be kept as short as possible unless you have a dodgy contact at a scrap metal dealer.

Now the trick for me is to figure out if I need two 5kW Sunsynk or two 8.8kW Sunsynk inverters to be able to handle peak loads as everything will be on the essential side. A single 8.8kW inverter may be enough if I do some planning and automate the loads a bit.

 

[furpile]

Ooh ... saw this on the CBI website ... why replace the DB switches with CBI astutes, when I can just replace the 30A switches at the edge i.e. at the kitchen stove or in the roof for the geysers ... I have rock solid WiFi so coverage is not going to be a problem. This will mean I can keep my existing DB as is!

While the sonoff's have not given me any problems driving 3Kw and 2Kw geyser elements and 1.5Kw Heat Pump, ts, nice to have piece of mind that the kit is all locally certified and rater for higher loads. Will also get sparky to do this work - I don't want to do it.

CBi Astute Smart Isolator (ASI) | CBI-electric (Circuit Breaker Industries)

Download the CBI Home App on the App Store or on Google Play! Instruction Manual or YouTube Programming Videos Visit the Astute Support Hub or CBI Forum for any questions about the Astute Range (Looking for the Astute Smart Controller / ASC , Astute Smart Plug / ASP , Astute Smart Plug Dedicated...

cbi-lowvoltage.co.za

It's Tuya but I have local control via Home Assistant for some other bulbs so should they will easily come in for management.

Anybody using these?

I have the CBI on my geyser now but the DB version. Installed it downstream from the normal breaker as there was lots of space available. Using localtuya into HA, I can see the energy consumption in HA and control the gesyer. The isolator version should be the same.

 

[furpile]

I also have a challenge when I decide to pull the trigger on a solar installation. My DB board is in the house and I have a flat roof which I am not willing to open. This means that I can't split the loads at the DB and there is no space in the house for a noisy inverter. My garage is also too hot.

My plan is to still install in the garage but use a cabinet or DIY enclosure with a thermostatically controlled fan which will blow filtered air from the outside into the enclosure. That takes care of the heat issue and keeps the noise out of the house and water ingress is also not a problem.

For the inability to split loads I'll put the entire DB on the essential load of the inverter(s) and just re-route the municipal supply to the inverter(s) in the garage first instead of to the house DB. Then lay a new armour cable from the inverter to the house. The DC cabling from the panels is a longer run of about 20 meters but that's not too bad as the voltages are fairly high (350 to 450V) so the cabling doesn't need to be very thick. The most critical is low voltage and high current like the batteries to inverter. That cabling needs to be kept as short as possible unless you have a dodgy contact at a scrap metal dealer.

Now the trick for me is to figure out if I need two 5kW Sunsynk or two 8.8kW Sunsynk inverters to be able to handle peak loads as everything will be on the essential side. A single 8.8kW inverter may be enough if I do some planning and automate the loads a bit.

There is also the 16kW Sunsynk now, but it is only slightly cheaper than 2x 8kW's. The 2x 5kW's are only a bit more expensive than the 8kW again.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

There is also the 16kW Sunsynk now, but it is only slightly cheaper than 2x 8kW's. The 2x 5kW's are only a bit more expensive than the 8kW again.

Also 2 inverters will give you redundancy...

 

[Paul_S]

There is also the 16kW Sunsynk now, but it is only slightly cheaper than 2x 8kW's. The 2x 5kW's are only a bit more expensive than the 8kW again.

Yes, I saw that 16kW version and my thoughts are that having 2 inverters at least provides some redundancy so that if one pops and is in for repairs, one can still run off the other unit with degraded performance.

 

[furpile]

How do you set up 2 inverters in parallel? Can you use the MPPT's on both of them? One will be a master and one a slave setup? Will each inverter have it's own batteries?

 

[Paul_S]

How do you set up 2 inverters in parallel? Can you use the MPPT's on both of them? One will be a master and one a slave setup? Will each inverter have it's own batteries?

One inverter will act as the master. The inverters share a common bus bar from the batteries. You can use all four MPPTs across the two inverters.

Copy of PARALLELING INVERTERS

You can connect up to 16 inverters in parallel ( 15 on 3 Phase ) that will give your 150 kw Hybrid system To configure multi-inverter settings, click on the 'Advance' icon.For stability, all the batteries need to be connected in parallel. It is recommended that a minimum cable size is of 50mm...

www.sunsynk.org

 

[furpile]

One inverter will act as the master. The inverters share a common bus bar from the batteries. You can use all four MPPTs across the two inverters.

Copy of PARALLELING INVERTERS

You can connect up to 16 inverters in parallel ( 15 on 3 Phase ) that will give your 150 kw Hybrid system To configure multi-inverter settings, click on the 'Advance' icon.For stability, all the batteries need to be connected in parallel. It is recommended that a minimum cable size is of 50mm...

www.sunsynk.org

Thanks for the link.

 

[Hd7]

Ooh ... saw this on the CBI website ... why replace the DB switches with CBI astutes, when I can just replace the 30A switches at the edge i.e. at the kitchen stove or in the roof for the geysers ... I have rock solid WiFi so coverage is not going to be a problem. This will mean I can keep my existing DB as is!

While the sonoff's have not given me any problems driving 3Kw and 2Kw geyser elements and 1.5Kw Heat Pump, ts, nice to have piece of mind that the kit is all locally certified and rater for higher loads. Will also get sparky to do this work - I don't want to do it.

CBi Astute Smart Isolator (ASI) | CBI-electric (Circuit Breaker Industries)

Download the CBI Home App on the App Store or on Google Play! Instruction Manual or YouTube Programming Videos Visit the Astute Support Hub or CBI Forum for any questions about the Astute Range (Looking for the Astute Smart Controller / ASC , Astute Smart Plug / ASP , Astute Smart Plug Dedicated...

cbi-lowvoltage.co.za

It's Tuya but I have local control via Home Assistant for some other bulbs so should they will easily come in for management.

Anybody using these?

I'm using them. DB was full and didn't want to use standalone boxes for the astute breakers hence went for the smart isolators. Just bear in mind the CBI isolators have a fairly chunky backplate so installation may take some finangling... Control is seamless, wifi coverage would be the only risk but you've mentioned that isn't an issue. Hopefully they last a good couple years because changing them out would be the only other inconvenience - roof vs eye level db

 

[TedLasso]

Good to know. I was also thinking now that they should last a really long time because once inverter is in, all power in house is clean and will most likely be free of surge whatever happens on Eskom side.

While I already have surge protected plugs on every electronic device or multiplug , this won't be so necessary once inverter is in.

 

[itareanlnotani]

Have you looked at putting insulation in the garage roof to reduce temps?
Or painting the roof in a nice reflective white? (Cheap to do, assuming its a metal roof)

Can be a quite significant difference, and its relatively easy to self install.
Pricing for rolls of isotherm insulation has literally doubled over the last year though, which is rather sucky (mostly as I need approx 200m2 worth)


Here's something I wrote a while ago - https://goingsolar.co.za/2016/01/08...ion-keep-it-cool-in-summer-and-hot-in-winter/

I'd stick inverter and batteries inside the garage vs outside in a cupboard. Winter rain could get in, and damage expensive things. Garages are usually safer, plus the temp range variations will be less inside, vs out.

 

[TedLasso]

Have you looked at putting insulation in the garage roof to reduce temps?
Or painting the roof in a nice reflective white? (Cheap to do, assuming its a metal roof)

Can be a quite significant difference, and its relatively easy to self install.
Pricing for rolls of isotherm insulation has literally doubled over the last year though, which is rather sucky (mostly as I need approx 200m2 worth)


Here's something I wrote a while ago - https://goingsolar.co.za/2016/01/08...ion-keep-it-cool-in-summer-and-hot-in-winter/

I'd stick inverter and batteries inside the garage vs outside in a cupboard. Winter rain could get in, and damage expensive things. Garages are usually safer, plus the temp range variations will be less inside, vs out.

Hi,

So the garage roof is tiled like rest of house. We have pink insulation in the roof - which hasn't made a difference for this room - maybe it's better but still always warmer than rest of house. In fact the roof over the garage is where I plan to put hopefully 10 solar panels.

To something in your post

Mount solar panels, and kill 2 birds with one stone – my roof is partially covered by solar panels, this helps, as they’re mounted above the roof, and keep the underlying area cool, plus generate electricity. Its a little more expensive than roof insulation though!

I am thinking this will then help