Telkom allows anyone to invoke a debit order

chrisc

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Our book-keeper, who has been fired for fraud, found a nifty loophole to save herself and her family some money. She called Telkom and arranged that her home phone and her mother's home phone accounts were paid by the business by means of a debit order. Telkom accepted the request which she made by email without asking for a copy of an ID. She did have signing powers on the account, which enabled her to have an additional bank card made which enabled her to withdraw R 225 000 in cash from ATMs during a 15 month period.


To try it out, I called Telkom and told them I wanted to have my phone account paid by debit order onto my bank. All I had to do was provide my ID number and the bank account details. No forms to fill in, no questions as to whether I was entitled or authorised to institute debits to that bank account, it just went ahead. When I tried to cancel the instruction there was a merry run-around, no-one knew what to do, phone calls were not returned, so I went to the bank and instructed them to deny any payment requests from Telkom.

I also found that said bookkeeper was getting cash from her mother to pay for the mother's phone account and was pocketing it since the account was being paid by direct debit. When mother's phone was cut off as the bank declined the debit orders, she was most indignant and refused to believe that her daughter could have done such a thing. In 12 months the mother's phone account was R 14 334.66.

Temptation sometimes cannot be resisted, and Telkom make it easy to follow the dark route. I challenged them on this and the lady was astounded, then admitted that the scenario I presented was quite plausible.
 
How did you not notice r225,000 withdrawals? :eek:

What did you do to the book keeper?

Lastly, what are your account details?
 
She moved money from one account to the next to hide the withdrawals. We have a capital fund for acquiring new equipment which is offered from time to time, and money moves in and out of this account regularly and fairly large amounts, can be up to R1m sometimes

The book-keeper left and went straight to the CCMA, citing unfair dismissal. At the hearing (which she did not attend) I offered the CCMA guy the choice of having her back and prosecuting her for fraud, or leaving things as they were. He told me that this was blackmail, so I said it wasn't his R225k+ that was missing and he might have a change of heart if it was. I said if she were successfully prosecuted she might spend a year or two in prison and who would look after her 4 young children? He said the kids have nothing to do with it. So I got up and said, ok, she can have her job back but on the way back, I am calling at Caledon Square Police station to lay a charge of fraud. He came running after me to the stairs and said I must compromise, so I just shrugged and walked out. Not heard anything since

There are 5 bank accounts, are you going to donate something to them?
 
You obviously quite lenient - I would have gone at her with everything :twisted:

For the bank accounts - I want to test a 4MB Telkom uncapped account :D
 
She moved money from one account to the next to hide the withdrawals. We have a capital fund for acquiring new equipment which is offered from time to time, and money moves in and out of this account regularly and fairly large amounts, can be up to R1m sometimes

The book-keeper left and went straight to the CCMA, citing unfair dismissal. At the hearing (which she did not attend) I offered the CCMA guy the choice of having her back and prosecuting her for fraud, or leaving things as they were. He told me that this was blackmail, so I said it wasn't his R225k+ that was missing and he might have a change of heart if it was. I said if she were successfully prosecuted she might spend a year or two in prison and who would look after her 4 young children? He said the kids have nothing to do with it. So I got up and said, ok, she can have her job back but on the way back, I am calling at Caledon Square Police station to lay a charge of fraud. He came running after me to the stairs and said I must compromise, so I just shrugged and walked out. Not heard anything since

There are 5 bank accounts, are you going to donate something to them?

Compromise? What for?

Theft is theft.

Well done for standing up to the CCMA and her nonsense.
 
The CCMA will only accept theft as a reason for dismissal if the employee has been convicted, otherwise it is your word against theirs. There is no point in pursuing her for compensation since she does not have a job. However, I made her sign an acknowledgement of debt for R 303734.60 on the understanding that I will receive 10% of her gross earnings.

However, silly woman went and applied for the job as a bursar at a school in Muizenberg. Headmistress called me and wanted to know how she worked. So I said, apart from the theft and lies she was quite punctual at coming to work. There was a silence on the phone for a few seconds, and she said, "are you serious, how much did she steal", so I answered, just over R300k and there was gasp.

Methinks she did not get that job. Today's interview was at Mamacos at Diep River and I have just received an email asking for employment verification. Some people have no shame. She thinks she was entitled to the money as she feels that I have so much, compared to her, that she should share the profits too. Her mother is adamant that she was unfairly dismissed and I bribed the CCMA to keep her out the hearing (she told her mother that the hearing was moved up an hour, so by the time she got there, on time, it was all over.
 
That's quite normal for debit orders and not just Telkom.
 
That's quite normal for debit orders and not just Telkom.

Yup. Scary stuff.

I've asked our legal manager at the office what prevents people from just providing someone else's details when signup up with us. The reply was pretty much along the lines of 'we'll deal with it when it happens'. Think this is the general view.
 
That's quite normal for debit orders and not just Telkom.
Wow...

If this really is true, I cannot believe that no-one has ever tried to get measures in place against this. And it is even harder to believe there are not more people exploiting such a loophole.:wtf:
 
I remember Jeremy Clarkson posting his bank details online, and someone taking out a debit order against them.
 
Wow...

If this really is true, I cannot believe that no-one has ever tried to get measures in place against this. And it is even harder to believe there are not more people exploiting such a loophole.:wtf:
Its true. I told me wife once to move her Cell C debit order to my account once, since she quite her job and wasn't going to get an income for a while (birth of our second daughter).

All it took her was 5 minutes with my name and bank details...
 
Chris, you might want to be careful regarding the references situation considering there is existing CCMA action taking place. Normally I'd applaud your decision not to be bullied but the fact of the matter is that you didn't press charges and therefore there is no conviction against her name. To tell future employers of her "theft" could land you in some really hot water. I'd suggest you decline to provide a personal opinion to future employers on the basis that it may significantly prejudice against her and may impact on future legal proceedings you have initiated. That should take care of the references issue without you having to go into detail at all. Just confirm employment dates and positions - that's all you're obliged to provide.

The best thing in these cases is to press charges. Not only does it protect you but it really is what she deserves...
 
Wow...

If this really is true, I cannot believe that no-one has ever tried to get measures in place against this. And it is even harder to believe there are not more people exploiting such a loophole.:wtf:
It's part of the banking code of practice on debit orders. At least it has been changed to make disputing debit orders much easier. And that's why you probably won't get far trying to run a scam by issuing debit orders.
 
Chris, you might want to be careful regarding the references situation considering there is existing CCMA action taking place. Normally I'd applaud your decision not to be bullied but the fact of the matter is that you didn't press charges and therefore there is no conviction against her name. To tell future employers of her "theft" could land you in some really hot water. I'd suggest you decline to provide a personal opinion to future employers on the basis that it may significantly prejudice against her and may impact on future legal proceedings you have initiated. That should take care of the references issue without you having to go into detail at all. Just confirm employment dates and positions - that's all you're obliged to provide.

The best thing in these cases is to press charges. Not only does it protect you but it really is what she deserves...


I have given her a certificate of employment and she is present working at a German Engineering Co in Montagu Gardens. The owner did not call me so I didn't have to rebuff any questions. On the bright side, her husband has paid me R 20000 towards her debt, as he is highly embarrassed over it. He says he can manage R 20k every other month and will pay whatever the balance is when he gets his bonus in December. He is a big shot in a a local mutual fund (a bit like Coronation Mutual fund but not them) and earns big bucks. He says he got a R600k cheque last year and will just forgo their skiing trip this year.

This is one of the reasons I did not press charges since I knew he would come to the party. Apparently I hear (after the fact of course) that she has been done for shoplifting and other petty theft in the past, yet they live in a smart house in Noordhoek and the kids go to Herschel.
 
I have given her a certificate of employment and she is present working at a German Engineering Co in Montagu Gardens. The owner did not call me so I didn't have to rebuff any questions. On the bright side, her husband has paid me R 20000 towards her debt, as he is highly embarrassed over it. He says he can manage R 20k every other month and will pay whatever the balance is when he gets his bonus in December. He is a big shot in a a local mutual fund (a bit like Coronation Mutual fund but not them) and earns big bucks. He says he got a R600k cheque last year and will just forgo their skiing trip this year.

This is one of the reasons I did not press charges since I knew he would come to the party. Apparently I hear (after the fact of course) that she has been done for shoplifting and other petty theft in the past, yet they live in a smart house in Noordhoek and the kids go to Herschel.

I genuinely feel sorry for her husband...
 
This is one of the reasons I did not press charges since I knew he would come to the party. Apparently I hear (after the fact of course) that she has been done for shoplifting and other petty theft in the past, yet they live in a smart house in Noordhoek and the kids go to Herschel.
It's a compulsion with some people.
 
My attorney had a word with a tracing agent who has an office in Pretoria. When this guy called his Pretoria office and described the situation, they started to laugh. Apparently this bogus attorneys are quite well known but he hadn't heard of them targeting people in Cape Town. The tracing agent in Pretoria said it was obvious that they either had an "in" into Telkom's accounts, or more likely could access the Telkom billing computer, which is easier to hide, since the record of people logging on is so involved that it creates over 2000 pages of record a day and nobody ever looks at it.

Apparently, Telkom phone billing and ADSL billing are two completely different departments who do not speak to each other, or share any details and the whole design is a big mess
 
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