Telkom cornered on ADSL

[Vice]

To me it sounds like a very interesting possibility, although Telkom is known to wiggle itself out of these 'corners', well using nothing else but BS. I'm waiting to see how the story develops. Not that I'm interested in their IPTV service, but in internet pricing. My guess is if they don't drop the prices then TM is going to be a still born. For the sake of pricing I prefer TM to succeed...

 

[sabagamma]

I cannot see Telkom doing this with its current infrastructure. The current infrastructure is too old and rickety. The investment required to get this up to scratch might be a step too far.

Perhaps Telkom would use another technology like WiMax to stream the data. That way they could keep their normal DSL seperate (and profits high) while still competing in the TV space.

 

[Roo!]

Surely the majority of subscribers for IPTV would be the same individuals that have been ripped off by Telkom for ADSL services? If this is the case then exactly how does TM expect to sell this product? Lets face it Telkom have burnt their bridges with us lot a long, long, long time ago!!!

 

[StefK]

Easy. Telkom will serve all programs from local server/s--thus this'll merely be local content.

With ADSL 2+, no problem. With local only content, the cap is not an issue, so no problem.

The proposed service is easily achievable.

But it does mean that ADSL access rentals will have to drop quite drastically. And limits on local bandwidth must fall away completely.

True, but I that means they'll actually have to start adhering to the ADSL regulations then, eh...

Actually, it's "Bringing you last years technology in 9 - 12 months!"

Or even "Last years technology is imminent."

Now if they provide the service for R400 (unlimited viewing etc) they will have a damn hard time validating why an ADSL connection (which you can do absolutely nothing with without the ISP portion) costs R500+ for half the speed or even less.

Add to this the fact that they are using so called precious and costly "local bandwidth" to deliver these IP streams (whether multicast or point to point) and u end up with a situation where competitors (who want to offer IPTV type services or local interactive services) cannot compete with this and they have a case for the competition commission. ie. Why pay R20-40/GB for local bandwidth when Telkoms streaming more than that every hour

But wait think further... IPTV falls outside of Telkoms own "Shaped" package so the bandwidth should cost even more (as I doubt they'd be streaming over ports 80/443/110/25 etc) and would have to be guaranteed local bandwidth.

IF telkom do launch an IPTV product they CANNOT validate their existing ADSL pricing as simple comparisons can be made between the pricing.

Agreed.

The fatal mistake that everyone seems to be making, is to assume that IPTV or VoD will pass through an ADSL2+ modem that also gets used for Internet Connectivity, IMO there will be a separate 'IPTV decoder box' that is attached to the line - in addition to one's ADSL[2+] modem, and they will probably have to operate in different frequency ranges - this is possible using the various different 'annexes' that exist, i.e. more than one ADSL-type modem operating on the same physical line.

I cannot see Telkom doing this with its current infrastructure. The current infrastructure is too old and rickety. The investment required to get this up to scratch might be a step too far.

Perhaps Telkom would use another technology like WiMax to stream the data. That way they could keep their normal DSL seperate (and profits high) while still competing in the TV space.

ic, I think even if a completely different set top box is used, the above still holds.

IPTV over ADSL is still data sent over ADSL. They can't sell this as different technology, thus even local bandwidth in their current ADSL pricing scheme would be overpriced.

Even the incompetant fools at ICASA should be able to see this collusion. (Prays to God that he's not over-crediting and misplacing faith )

I think sabagamma has Telkom's thinking down, but for it to work they'll really need to get their infrastructure whipping @ss to get WiMax to 8Mbps per user though.

 

[ic]

At the briefing it was clear that there is one home gateway that would terminate the ADSL portion of the line. The IPTV decoder that they were using was then connected to the home gateway using ethernet (for the purposes of the demonstration).

There would be one box that would authenticate to the ADSL2+ network and then I would assume that the decoder would then log onto the IPTV server to access the content.
If you wanted to buy Internet access the home gateway would log onto the authentication server for that. TM are looking to be the point of call for Telkom's triple play offering so voice will alos be in there somewhere.

What will be intereting to see is how Telkom try to justify paying a separate DATA line rental charge and a IPTV line rental charge. I can't see how that would be possible so it may mean that either you will have to buy a bundled service from your ISP (determined by speed and capacity) or you will only be charged for the line once and then you can buy services on that line (such as internet access VOIP or IPTV)
This is complicated and Telkom's existing pricing systems are not going to be able to handle it. I foresee the death of the broadband line rental portion as it is not viable in a triple play world.

I'm not sure I correctly understand Telkodemonopolies' demo setup [BTW did agents of the beast actually demo IPTV in action?], the "home gateway" is then a sort of multiplexer into which one plugs the IPTV decoder as well as ethernet ADSL[2+] router|modem as well as Flintstones telephony devices...?

 

[ldmelsa]

The consumer could well get the free local bandwidth back which ICASA also eluded to in the poorly drafted ADSL regulations, which is a good thing and thus putting us back where we were 3 or so years ago regarding ADSL limitations.

Oh dear.

I'm not sure I correctly understand Telkodemonopolies' demo setup [BTW did agents of the beast actually demo IPTV in action?], the "home gateway" is then a sort of multiplexer into which one plugs the IPTV decoder as well as ethernet ADSL[2+] router|modem as well as Flintstones telephony devices...?

 

[Oupoot]

If i remember correctly, ICASA did say something about pay-TV not usingthe airwaves, i.e. they cannot use Wimax for pay-TV. I may be wrong.

Just like DSTV, TM will probably encrypt the signal so you would have to buy an extra modem/decoder. And since they are able to tell the difference in data (or so they claim) they will simply insert a clause in ADSL contract so the cap excludes IPTV data. Oh yeah, only if you are a TM customer will they allow you to have faster internet access.

 

[pope24]

The "Home gateway" is just an ADSL 2+ router. It is the same as what you have plugged in at home today except it has IPTV QOS systems built in.
It was plugged in via a standard Ethernet cable to the decoder.
I would assume the method is similar to the dual mode that many routers use today where your can operate in bridge mode and well as router mode.

They did show it in action but their video capture card was stuffed so the picture was washed out, but it seemed to come through in a decent resolution.

 

[ic]

The "Home gateway" is just an ADSL 2+ router. It is the same as what you have plugged in at home today except it has IPTV QOS systems built in.
It was plugged in via a standard Ethernet cable to the decoder.
I would assume the method is similar to the dual mode that many routers use today where your can operate in bridge mode and well as router mode.

They did show it in action but their video capture card was stuffed so the picture was washed out, but it seemed to come through in a decent resolution.

Ok cool, now I understand .

 

[ShaunSA]

They did show it in action but their video capture card was stuffed so the picture was washed out, but it seemed to come through in a decent resolution.

Gee they couldn't even get a simple presentation right

 

[Roman4604]

I would assume the method is similar to the dual mode that many routers use today where your can operate in bridge mode and well as router mode.

Ya thats the way I would have guessed it.

Set top box logs in via ADSL2+ router using PPPoE ([email protected]) which gets it onto a dedicated IPTV VPN with no connection to Internet.

The router itself also logs in seperately for data ([email protected]) which connects it to either SAIX's or IS's Internet access networks, depending on login.

In this way the IPTV & Internet are on 2 totally different login session, and as such their traffic usage & capping are totally independant.

 

[Praeses]

Wouldn't watching IPTV the whole time be "abuse" then...since you'll be streaming it all the time while you watch... I thought they started hard-capping because people "abused" the uncapped local bandwidth

 

[ldmelsa]

The "Home gateway" is just an ADSL 2+ router. It is the same as what you have plugged in at home today except it has IPTV QOS systems built in.
It was plugged in via a standard Ethernet cable to the decoder.
I would assume the method is similar to the dual mode that many routers use today where your can operate in bridge mode and well as router mode.

They did show it in action but their video capture card was stuffed so the picture was washed out, but it seemed to come through in a decent resolution.

Hi pope24

Was it HD?

 

[ic]

Wouldn't watching IPTV the whole time be "abuse" then...since you'll be streaming it all the time while you watch... I thought they started hard-capping because people "abused" the uncapped local bandwidth

Well since it would be Telkodemonopolies actively controlling the streaming, i.e. sending IPTV packets out from its servers, it would technically be Telkodemonopolies abusing local uncapped bandwidth - maybe Telkodemonopolies could be sued for degrading everyone's ADSL QoS with its IPTV streaming [when it launches]...

 

[Roman4604]

I thought they started hard-capping because people "abused" the uncapped local bandwidth

If my assumptions are right, it wouldn't 'abuse' local Internet bandwidth as its not on the Internet (local or otherwise) ... uses a seperate backbone network ... only thing shared is local ADSL loop (the copper/ATM bit).

 

[pope24]

It wasn't HD, but they said that they would be able to do that.
Apparently one issue is that the amount of channels you can watch/record at the same time is dictated by the quality fo the connection you have so you might be able to watch one HD channel and record one or two SD channels at the smae time but I think (and I am not sure here) that even if you were getting 20Mbps from the exchange you would struggle to fit more than one HD channel down the pipe (using MPEG4 compression)

With regard to Wimax, they said that the Wimax base stations did not have enough capacity to deliver IPTV. Each base station has a capacity of about 60Mbps(if I recall correctly) and if there were only 5 or 6 people connecting to the base station you could theoretically do it but what are the chances of Telkom building a base station for just 6 people.

 

[ldmelsa]

It wasn't HD, but they said that they would be able to do that.
Apparently one issue is that the amount of channels you can watch/record at the same time is dictated by the quality fo the connection you have so you might be able to watch one HD channel and record one or two SD channels at the smae time but I think (and I am not sure here) that even if you were getting 20Mbps from the exchange you would struggle to fit more than one HD channel down the pipe (using MPEG4 compression)

With regard to Wimax, they said that the Wimax base stations did not have enough capacity to deliver IPTV. Each base station has a capacity of about 60Mbps(if I recall correctly) and if there were only 5 or 6 people connecting to the base station you could theoretically do it but what are the chances of Telkom building a base station for just 6 people.

Thanks for the response, pope24.

Oh yes. With mpeg4 you can do full 1080i @ +-10Mbps - would be broadcast quality (no problem for adsl2+). It needs to be a quality connection though.

 

[ldmelsa]

With regard to Wimax, they said that the Wimax base stations did not have enough capacity to deliver IPTV. Each base station has a capacity of about 60Mbps(if I recall correctly) and if there were only 5 or 6 people connecting to the base station you could theoretically do it but what are the chances of Telkom building a base station for just 6 people.

60Mbps - is that all?

How many people connect to that one base station?

 

[Tux]

60Mbps - is that all?

How many people connect to that one base station?

With telkom? As much as they can squeeze in.

 

[StefK]

With telkom? As much as they can squeeze in.

Well since 256kbps is "broadband" in SA, I guess around 230 odd people, without p1ss1ng off ASA with "false claims".

(sighs, shrugs and shakes head disapprovingly)