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Telkom slams broadband report
- Thread starter AdLo
- Start date
"Vapi says Telkom operates in a competitive environment, and that it was unfair for the regulator to investigate its services."
Does Telkom honestly think it operates in a competitive environment? If so they are in for a shock when real competition arrives...
Does Telkom honestly think it operates in a competitive environment? If so they are in for a shock when real competition arrives...
brucel
Well-Known Member
I think it is time Telkom explained it all. It is there own fault, holding onto such a business and not providing there clients with options. It should have been explained to Telkom, that your clients come first and that in the end mass action will get results. Sorry to them deal with it.
Way to go RPM, Kick them while they are down, they deserve it.
You got the ball rolling, it got momentum, if you get quoted every time Telkom bleats they don't stand a chance.
Go For It............................
You got the ball rolling, it got momentum, if you get quoted every time Telkom bleats they don't stand a chance.
Go For It............................
brucel
Well-Known Member
they should have acted when had the chance, now they will have to face the music. tough cookie. we are the client and they refused to hear our calls.
Go for it, power to the mass....
Go for it, power to the mass....
Noble_Nanobot
Well-Known Member
.... someone please pinch me, this is unreal ... 
... where was this distinguished gentleman and his strategies or "facts about network design" during the hearings? When it all mattered? In other words he is saying ICASA is talking K*k, they are prepared to twist their arms untill they see it Telkom's way?I's simple and plain ... they failed to prove that it's to the country's benefit that they exist! Ag shame Mr Vapi, he's crying foul play.... the tables have turned ... doesn't really feel good being at the receiving end now is it!!!
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freeek
Expert Member
TheRoDent has pointed out some points.... If telkom had to suddenly drop the line rental all together this would mean huge profit losses.... Would amass to something like 40million a month of sales. Icasa is def. on the right course by making this information available however they should slowly put them into effect. For example at least get rid of the stupid "Voice Line Rental" that we have to pay. Same line why pay for something twice... Increasing the Cap, Increasing Speeds, Investigating the underground sat cables and very importantly unbundling the local loop!
Highflyer_GP
Honorary Master
the voice line rental R90-odd per month has always been there. they make enough from that alone. what doesnt belong is the adsl rental, since u using the same voice line for adsl as well. the correct thing to do would be remove the adsl rental instead of paying for something twice, in any case this is unique to sa - doesnt happen elsewhere whether or not their loop is unbundled
freeek
Expert Member
however the DSLAMS have not always been there or at least not the versions that offer adsl so they could argue that is different and fair enough that could allow for the difference in price of adsl and a normal line. However being charged this + the normal line is just plain day light robbery
Celemasiko
Expert Member
Vapi, as usual is full of **** and on top tries to defend his rubbish. But who will believe him?
TheRoDent
I have to agree with the broader idea that better competition can afford less regulation. The problem however with the current setup is that we are stuck in a rut as far as the SNO is concerned. I am perturbed by government’s lack of vision in understanding that we need more than just an SNO. We need a third and a fourth network operator too. Entry to the market at this very time is restricted through legislation and not cost barriers. The perfect solution to the current predicament would be to open the market through relaxing the processes involved in starting up a network operation. Anybody with enough cash to give the big boys a run for their money should be allowed to do so.
Until the market can sustain good competition by striking a balance between the needs of the users and that of the corporations, we need ICASA to step in and be the weight that strikes that balance artificially. It has been leaning toward Telkom for reasons too grim to discuss here and this latest finding is a step in the right direction for now. Later, when we have more than just the SNO in the market, these regulations can be relaxed. I promise you that the SNO will not be enough to bring normality to the South African telecoms market. A duopoly will inevitably form and ICASA will be more needed than ever.
This situation is so easy to solve if only there was a bit more of a commitment from government to do so…
I have to agree with the broader idea that better competition can afford less regulation. The problem however with the current setup is that we are stuck in a rut as far as the SNO is concerned. I am perturbed by government’s lack of vision in understanding that we need more than just an SNO. We need a third and a fourth network operator too. Entry to the market at this very time is restricted through legislation and not cost barriers. The perfect solution to the current predicament would be to open the market through relaxing the processes involved in starting up a network operation. Anybody with enough cash to give the big boys a run for their money should be allowed to do so.
Until the market can sustain good competition by striking a balance between the needs of the users and that of the corporations, we need ICASA to step in and be the weight that strikes that balance artificially. It has been leaning toward Telkom for reasons too grim to discuss here and this latest finding is a step in the right direction for now. Later, when we have more than just the SNO in the market, these regulations can be relaxed. I promise you that the SNO will not be enough to bring normality to the South African telecoms market. A duopoly will inevitably form and ICASA will be more needed than ever.
This situation is so easy to solve if only there was a bit more of a commitment from government to do so…
TheRoDent
Cool Ideas Rep
I agree with you antowan, and I don't dispute at all that due to the monopoly the current ADSL situation is unacceptable. I just get the feeling that ICASA is pushing this ADSL report to sort out the most pressing issue, which was: a lot of complaints against Telkom. Whilst action, and some regulation might not be a bad thing in the short term, I'm just worried that these regulations will get carried over to other providers, which will stifle incentive to invest in broadband infrastructure from competitive providers.
Telkom should be made to pay. Telkom should be the ones to whom these regulations apply, because of their distinct monopolistic advantage. I'm worried that if these regulations appear, Telkom will bleat about it until it applies to EVERYONE. And that will be a bad thing...
The thing about making regulations is that it's schizophrenic to apply regulations to only a single provider, even if they (Telkom) deserve it. And even if it only gets applied to a single operator, others operators and investors will be worried about the possibility of ICASA using the same tactics against them. My worry is that further regulations may have future ramifications in what is supposed to become a freer market.
I cannot agree more regarding higher level government involvement.... Ivy needs to stop being so obnoxious to the people and business that she's supposed to support and help, and instead make some decisions.
Telkom should be made to pay. Telkom should be the ones to whom these regulations apply, because of their distinct monopolistic advantage. I'm worried that if these regulations appear, Telkom will bleat about it until it applies to EVERYONE. And that will be a bad thing...
The thing about making regulations is that it's schizophrenic to apply regulations to only a single provider, even if they (Telkom) deserve it. And even if it only gets applied to a single operator, others operators and investors will be worried about the possibility of ICASA using the same tactics against them. My worry is that further regulations may have future ramifications in what is supposed to become a freer market.
I cannot agree more regarding higher level government involvement.... Ivy needs to stop being so obnoxious to the people and business that she's supposed to support and help, and instead make some decisions.
antowan said:
won't work...
Telkom own the copper and any SNOx will not roll out new copper, Telkom knows this that's why they love the idea of SNOx.
As long as the Telecomms Act reads as it does and Telkom won't rent out the copper we f@#1k!d.
Even 10 SATx's won't help to get prices to an international level.
Highflyer_GP
Honorary Master
it will be down to international levels should the local loop be unbundled and sat3 declared a vital public asset. it was all paid for using taxpayers money, not shareholders mone. for now, strict short-term regulation is needed
TheRoDent,
I cannot see these regulations having an impact on wireless providers other than forcing them to have some form of service level agreement (taking into account the intricacies of wireless data provisioning of course) and perhaps affording those consumers the same liberties of less shaping, static IP’s and so forth…
Not everything in this findings report can be extrapolated to the wireless industry anyway because the competition there is real (to a degree) and the method of delivery is very different.
This legislation can be undone, but only if there is true competition in the market. Only then and not a moment sooner. Telkom will try all sorts of devious ways of getting out of this bind. It may include threats of service reduction, rollout cancellations or even court action, which is perhaps a dead certainty. It may even offer more free beer to parliamentarians at its posh lounge area next to Parliament in Cape Town to ease MPs into perhaps not being so keen to defend the public good.
We have to understand that the corporate culture at Telkom is anything but healthy and that it is currently (as a collective) acting like a wounded and cornered animal. It can do anything! I am astounded time and time again at what government allows this crap, half baked, monopolistic business called Telkom to get away with! Corruption comes to mind, but I will not dare state this as fact because it is difficult to prove. I will however not be surprised…
Hats off to ICASA for doing something noble in the face of Telkom…
I cannot see these regulations having an impact on wireless providers other than forcing them to have some form of service level agreement (taking into account the intricacies of wireless data provisioning of course) and perhaps affording those consumers the same liberties of less shaping, static IP’s and so forth…
Not everything in this findings report can be extrapolated to the wireless industry anyway because the competition there is real (to a degree) and the method of delivery is very different.
This legislation can be undone, but only if there is true competition in the market. Only then and not a moment sooner. Telkom will try all sorts of devious ways of getting out of this bind. It may include threats of service reduction, rollout cancellations or even court action, which is perhaps a dead certainty. It may even offer more free beer to parliamentarians at its posh lounge area next to Parliament in Cape Town to ease MPs into perhaps not being so keen to defend the public good.
We have to understand that the corporate culture at Telkom is anything but healthy and that it is currently (as a collective) acting like a wounded and cornered animal. It can do anything! I am astounded time and time again at what government allows this crap, half baked, monopolistic business called Telkom to get away with! Corruption comes to mind, but I will not dare state this as fact because it is difficult to prove. I will however not be surprised…
Hats off to ICASA for doing something noble in the face of Telkom…
TheRoDent
Cool Ideas Rep
Regulation is relatively easy. Deregulation isn't always the same easy trip.
telkom
Vapi's excuse that ICASA does not understand the local network infrastructure is typical of a monopoly desperate to protect its ludicrous profits.
Vapi says levying a once-off charge is not viable as Telkom provides a service for “as long as the customer requires it. It costs money to roll out, and maintain the service.
Oh! Yeah? Why then is South Africa the only country in the entire world that requires a ADSL line rental?? Is there something unique about South Africa that requires a different business model??
If we do away with access charges we may have to revisit our broadband rollout strategy, which may hinder development in the long run. This could discourage Telkom from investing further.”
Have you seen your balance sheet lately. Your profits are insane. Listen up, Telkom, the SA consumer is sick to death of your exploitations. We are not going to give up. Either you play along nicely and retain some customers in the process, or you will fail as a business. You cannot fight against your very own customers. You will go up in smoke.
Vapi's excuse that ICASA does not understand the local network infrastructure is typical of a monopoly desperate to protect its ludicrous profits.
Vapi says levying a once-off charge is not viable as Telkom provides a service for “as long as the customer requires it. It costs money to roll out, and maintain the service.
Oh! Yeah? Why then is South Africa the only country in the entire world that requires a ADSL line rental?? Is there something unique about South Africa that requires a different business model??
If we do away with access charges we may have to revisit our broadband rollout strategy, which may hinder development in the long run. This could discourage Telkom from investing further.”
Have you seen your balance sheet lately. Your profits are insane. Listen up, Telkom, the SA consumer is sick to death of your exploitations. We are not going to give up. Either you play along nicely and retain some customers in the process, or you will fail as a business. You cannot fight against your very own customers. You will go up in smoke.
I feel it's time for me to comment. I've studied the ICASA findings in detail.
This is very close to the truth. The company is top-heavy, too many chiefs and too few indians was used many times within the company itself. The disparity is even worse now, with retrenchments and all that.
More regulation, is not the way to go and I don't believe that micro-regulation of every aspect of Telkom is the way to go.
The biggest single changes that will liberalize the whole telecoms industry are the unbundling of the local loop and declaring SAT-3/SAFE a national asset.
It is correct to assume that the SNO will not lay new copper. That kind of thing is a very, very costly exercise, and currently the telecommunications act prohibits it.
Telkom is talking bullsh1t when they refer to "competitive environment" There are currently no other players. If they are referring to WBS and Sentech then they are making a mountain out of a molehill: WBS and Sentech are a drop in the ocean and their services are crappy, unreliable and they treat their customers worse than Telkom.
Telkom's ADSL product was indeed designed to protect the Diginet cash cow. The price of Diginet circuits are astronomical... I couldn't believe the pricing when I found out about it many years ago. Specifically all the things you can easily do on a Diginet line i.e. p2p, hosting, etc.. have been disabled or throttled on the ADSL products to prevent people from using that as a cheap alternative to Diginet.
Unfortunately
this has all become a very complex issue. More regulation is not the way to go here. I would think that if Ivy did her job things could be different but alas the chances of that happening.... are next to zero.
This is very close to the truth. The company is top-heavy, too many chiefs and too few indians was used many times within the company itself. The disparity is even worse now, with retrenchments and all that.
More regulation, is not the way to go and I don't believe that micro-regulation of every aspect of Telkom is the way to go.
The biggest single changes that will liberalize the whole telecoms industry are the unbundling of the local loop and declaring SAT-3/SAFE a national asset.
It is correct to assume that the SNO will not lay new copper. That kind of thing is a very, very costly exercise, and currently the telecommunications act prohibits it.
Telkom is talking bullsh1t when they refer to "competitive environment" There are currently no other players. If they are referring to WBS and Sentech then they are making a mountain out of a molehill: WBS and Sentech are a drop in the ocean and their services are crappy, unreliable and they treat their customers worse than Telkom.
Telkom's ADSL product was indeed designed to protect the Diginet cash cow. The price of Diginet circuits are astronomical... I couldn't believe the pricing when I found out about it many years ago. Specifically all the things you can easily do on a Diginet line i.e. p2p, hosting, etc.. have been disabled or throttled on the ADSL products to prevent people from using that as a cheap alternative to Diginet.
Unfortunately
this has all become a very complex issue. More regulation is not the way to go here. I would think that if Ivy did her job things could be different but alas the chances of that happening.... are next to zero.