The Bitcoin Thread

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Sabre Wulf said:
Seems its not as bad as I thought. Made a deposit last night from nicehash and it was through early hours. Not the best but not the worst.
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Made a deposit from NiceHash? I'm going to sound really dumb here, but can you actually get the money out that you have mined thus far, or do you have to wait for the date they give you, which changes all the time? I've stopped using NiceHash, it became useless for me :o
 
VAT & Bitcoin

Hi all

I've been advised by a pretty high-ranking lawyer (from a top legal firm) that if you sell more than R1m of BTC, you're liable for VAT. This it not on your profits, but on the actual sale amount.

Can anyone provide info on this other than just conjecture? Obviously we all want to believe otherwise, but if this is true, then it's potentially a huge risk.

My thinking is this could be applied based on your usage of BTC:

  • If you're using it as a payment mechanism, then I'd expect VAT wouldn't apply
  • If you're buying and selling (hodling or trading) in SA, then possibly VAT wouldn't apply
  • If you've acquired the BTC overseas, and sold it locally, then this is possibly the most at risk option

Please share your thoughts (hopefully based on professional opinion)
 
matthurley said:
Hi all

I've been advised by a pretty high-ranking lawyer (from a top legal firm) that if you sell more than R1m of BTC, you're liable for VAT. This it not on your profits, but on the actual sale amount.

Can anyone provide info on this other than just conjecture? Obviously we all want to believe otherwise, but if this is true, then it's potentially a huge risk.

My thinking is this could be applied based on your usage of BTC:

  • If you're using it as a payment mechanism, then I'd expect VAT wouldn't apply
  • If you're buying and selling (hodling or trading) in SA, then possibly VAT wouldn't apply
  • If you've acquired the BTC overseas, and sold it locally, then this is possibly the most at risk option

Please share your thoughts (hopefully based on professional opinion)
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How does a individual register to pay the VAT? This would only apply if you were running a business.
 
dj2381 said:
How does a individual register to pay the VAT? This would only apply if you were running a business.
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Nope. An individual operates as a sole proprieter. No need to register as a business if your turnover is less than R1mil. If turnover goes over that number, you have to register your business - which can remain a sole proprietorship but will enable you to register for VAT which is mandatory. You can then claim all input VAT and you then have to charge output VAT if you do business in the republic. VAT returns happen every two months and mostly shouldn't be a pain... especially if it's 0 VAT in and 0 VAT out most months. Register for a company number at www.cipc.co.za

Note: I operated an SP for 7 years or so (between 13 and 21 years ago).
Being able to claim input VAT is pretty cool when buying hardware including importing.
 
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Chris_the_Brit said:
BCH is going up. More pump 'n dump from certain vested interests. Still a strong correlation between BTC price going up and BCH going down (and vice-versa).

BCH like a bad rash you can't get rid of.
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Yeah BCH needs to die or stay low for long enough that everyone forgets about it.
 
Sabre Wulf said:
Nope. An individual operates as a sole proprieter. No need to register as a business if your turnover is less than R1mil. If turnover goes over that number, you have to register your business - which can remain a sole proprietorship but will enable you to register for VAT which is mandatory. You can then claim all input VAT and you then have to charge output VAT if you do business in the republic. VAT returns happen every two months and mostly shouldn't be a pain... especially if it's 0 VAT in and 0 VAT out most months. Register for a company number at www.cipc.co.za

Note: I operated an SP for 7 years or so (between 13 and 21 years ago).
Being able to claim input VAT is pretty cool when buying hardware including importing.
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I know I run a business, it was a bit of tongue in cheek, firstly if he is selling the BTC after investing he will only be liable for Capital gains or Income tax, if he is accepting BTC for a service and then cashing it out and making more than 1 Million then he would be liable for VAT as well and has to be registered.

My questions would be:

What does mining fall under? a Service?

Why would you declare your BTC earnings to SARS if you are getting paid for a service?, unless you are buying and selling assets, you could then essentially just claim you mined the BTC?

If someone gives you BTC as a gift how would you declare it to SARS when cashing out?
 
dj2381 said:
Why would you declare your BTC earnings to SARS if you are getting paid for a service?, unless you are buying and selling assets, you could then essentially just claim you mined the BTC?
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You don't pay tax on income other than ZAR afaik. If you're not converting, then it doesn't amount to a local income. If you cash in, it becomes income from mining (service).

If someone gives you BTC as a gift how would you declare it to SARS when cashing out?
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You declare the cash value as income. You have to declare gifts and donations as well AFAIK. Tax liability is not necessarily the same as declaring income... they will ultimately decide.

If you make income from trading, I imagine it would be treated no different from Forex trading income.
 
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Which of the USA exchanges do South Africans mainly use to do arbitrage? Given our prices I assume it's only in one direction. Buy Bitcoin on the USA exchange and sell on Luno for ZAR.
 
Second pump, LUNO 23BTC sell wall at 120k lets see what happens. BCH getting beat down like a red headed stepchild!
 
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