The Boeing 787 Dreamliner Thread

Garyvdh said:
Unfortunately both of them have had their fair share of massive problems in getting these things flying.
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The A350 is poised for first flight very soon. I hope it goes smoothly. If it does...I think Airbus gonna kick Boeing in da panty!
 
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House said:
Yep, they will. :)
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And the 747-8 is a failure....in my view anyway. They only have something like 20 passenger models on order. Sales on the A380 is a bit slow ... but the 747-8 not even close to competing with it. Boeing is basically out of the jumbo jet game if you ask me.
 
Bad News for Boeing: The Dreamliner's Battery Is a Nightmare

Updated Jun 8th 2013 3:10PM
Boeing's 787 Dreamliner just returned to the skies after a four-month grounding, but already there's trouble. The director of the Airline Pilots' Association of Japan, Toshikazu Nagasawa, said that pilots weren't satisfied with the changes Boeing made to it's lithium-ion battery and are concerned that they won't receive appropriate in-flight warnings if there's an issue. Some scientists and battery experts are also expressing concern about the safety of Boeing's battery.
Officials at All Nippon Airways and Japan Airlines said they're satisfied with Boeing's changes and have resumed flights, but investors may have cause for concern knowing that that the pilots -- the people whose lives depend on the safety of Boeing's battery -- aren't satisfied. Here's what you need to know.
Source: H. Michael Miley, Wikimedia Commons.
Are the issues in the past?

In March, Japanese pilots raised 30 safety concerns about the Dreamliner. One of their major concerns was that they didn't think Boeing had provided enough proof that the 787 would be safe to fly if the batteries failed. They also expressed concern that the warning indicator for a battery malfunction didn't indicate the severity of the problem.
More recently, the pilots' group expressed concern that Boeing didn't figure out what caused the problems with the batteries in the first place and is now downplaying the battery's necessity for flight. Consequently, the group challenged Boeing to conduct flight tests without the lithium-ion battery to prove its safety.
Boeing's vice president and the chief project engineer for the 787, Mike Sinnett, addressed these issues by saying the Dreamliner has backup systems that allow it to continue flying if the batteries fail, and that the warning indicators were ranked by severity, but these assurances have done little to quell the pilots' concerns.
Scientists add fuel to the fire

Battery experts and scientists have also publicly questioned the safety of Boeing's battery. Elton Cairns, a Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory professor and battery technology expert, said: "I'm shocked that Boeing was willing to stake its reputation on these batteries. Even with the modifications, the individual cells of the battery are crammed too closely together and feature an internal chemistry that's far too volatile."
More pointedly, Michel Armand, a professor of chemistry at the University of Picardie and a research director at the French government's Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique, told Barron's: "Using these batteries in planes makes no sense, with all the lives potentially at stake. These batteries are unpredictable and prone to thermal runaway and fires."
Fires, fires, everywhere

Boeing's 787 Dreamliner isn't alone when it comes to problems with its lithium-ion battery. In 2006, Meggitt subsidiary Securaplane Technologies -- which incidentally builds the charger for Boeing's battery -- suffered millions in damages when a lithium-ion battery exploded during testing and burned an Arizona facility to the ground.
Further, in both 2010 and 2011, 747 cargo planes carrying pallets of lithium-ion batteries crashed because of a fire, killing the crew.
In neither case could authorities determine a cause for the fire.
In March of this year, Mitsubishi Motors reported two incidents involving a lithium-ion battery. These batteries were manufactured by Mitsubishi's venture with GS Yuasa, the maker of Boeing's lithium-ion battery, although the batteries themselves are not the same. Mitsubishi reported that the problem was caused by contaminants getting into the battery cells during the screening process.

Fires ahead for Boeing?
Separately, these incidents are scary but manageable. But when you combine these accidents and factor in the pilots' concerns, you get the feeling that lithium-ion batteries are anything but safe. Underscoring this point is the decision by EADS' Airbus to pull the plug on putting lithium-ion batteries in its A350 plane, citing "immaturity of lithium-ion-battery technology." If the Dreamliner's battery really is fixed, this plane could prove to be quite profitable for Boeing. However, given all the issues it's had in the past, and the uncertainty of the battery, investors would do well to keep an eye on the Dreamliner -- especially considering Boeing's stock has risen and fallen right along with the Dreamliner.
Boeing operates as a major player in a multitrillion-dollar market in which the opportunities and responsibilities are absolutely massive. However, emerging competitors and the company's execution problems have investors wondering whether Boeing will live up to its shareholder responsibilities. In our premium research report on the company, two of The Motley Fool's best minds on industrials have collaborated to provide investors with the key, must-know issues surrounding Boeing. They'll be updating the report as key news hits, so don't miss out -- simply click here now to claim your copy today
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http://www.dailyfinance.com/2013/06/08/bad-news-for-boeing-the-dreamliners-battery-is-a-n/
 
If I get my flight confirmation going anywhere and they list this as the plane they'll be using, I'll make sure to change my flight. Not risking it.
 
Lithium-ion batteries are dangerous. They should not be used in planes and cars at this point in time. The only ones that seem to have gotten this perfect (at this stage) is tesla with their small cell design, but that still needs to be put to the test of time.

They will just have to suck it up and replace these batteries with gell vrla lead acid batteries.
 
Madman88 said:
Lithium-ion batteries are dangerous. They should not be used in planes and cars at this point in time. The only ones that seem to have gotten this perfect (at this stage) is tesla with their small cell design, but that still needs to be put to the test of time.

They will just have to suck it up and replace these batteries with gell vrla lead acid batteries.
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I agree once those batteries catch alight it is virtually impossible to put them out and should definitely not be used in planes.
 
Japanese 787 has Engine Problems

A Boeing Co. 787 jet has had engine trouble before takeoff in southwestern Japan a day after a rival Japanese carrier had trouble with another Dreamliner.

Neither problem is with the lithium-ion batteries that were overheating and resulted in the aircraft being grounded for months. The 787 returned to commercial service last month after measures were taken so overheating won't spread.

All Nippon Airways spokesman Yoichi Uchida said the plane was scheduled to depart Wednesday from Ube to Tokyo's Haneda airport but the right-side engine would not start. He said its 141 passengers are taking other flights.

A Japan Airlines 787 returned to Haneda shortly after takeoff Tuesday because of a problem in its deicing system.


Source : Sapa-AP /mom
Date : 12 Jun 2013 06:51
 
Garyvdh said:
A Boeing Co. 787 jet has had engine trouble before takeoff in southwestern Japan a day after a rival Japanese carrier had trouble with another Dreamliner.

Neither problem is with the lithium-ion batteries that were overheating and resulted in the aircraft being grounded for months. The 787 returned to commercial service last month after measures were taken so overheating won't spread.

All Nippon Airways spokesman Yoichi Uchida said the plane was scheduled to depart Wednesday from Ube to Tokyo's Haneda airport but the right-side engine would not start. He said its 141 passengers are taking other flights.

A Japan Airlines 787 returned to Haneda shortly after takeoff Tuesday because of a problem in its deicing system.


Source : Sapa-AP /mom
Date : 12 Jun 2013 06:51
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It will be interesting to see if the fault was with the actual engine or with the electronics? If with the engine..then Boeing cant really be blamed. It is hectic though the amount of problems this plane seems to be suffering from. You would think these problems would have surfaced during testing.

I hope the A350 does not suffer a similar fate. If airlines start switching tothe A350 to avoid the 787, then Airbus will have to make double sure their plane performs as smoothly as possible on delivery to clients. It could mean getting the upperhand on Boeing.
 
Boeing 787 diverted in USA due to brake problem

A Boeing 787 Dreamliner jet was "returned to base" on Sunday because of a problem with its brakes, a Boeing spokeswoman said, adding the landing was uneventful.

"It was leaving Houston to go to Denver and it went back to base," Yvonne Leach told AFP of the United flight. The fleet of Dreamliners was grounded earlier this year when problems were discovered with its battery systems.


Source : Sapa-AFP /mv
Date : 24 Jun 2013 06:43
 
Garyvdh said:
A Boeing 787 Dreamliner jet was "returned to base" on Sunday because of a problem with its brakes, a Boeing spokeswoman said, adding the landing was uneventful.

"It was leaving Houston to go to Denver and it went back to base," Yvonne Leach told AFP of the United flight. The fleet of Dreamliners was grounded earlier this year when problems were discovered with its battery systems.


Source : Sapa-AFP /mv
Date : 24 Jun 2013 06:43
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My word. Will the problems with this plane ever end? Go Airbus! :D

Bombardier Cseries should be having its maiden flight this week. Cant wait.
 
Boeing need to jack up their procurement and supplier QM. Dreamliner is a marvellous aeroplane, so 'tis a pity the whole project is being tarnished by subsystems supplied by specialists.
 
ANOTHER malfunctioning Boeing 787 Dreamliner flight grounded - the fourth in just 10

More than 100 passengers were left stranded after a malfunctioning 787 Dreamliner was grounded in Tokyo, Japan, today - the fourth such incident for the trouble-plagued aircraft in 10 days.
The All Nippon Airways 787 Dreamliner was delayed after a cockpit message said the plane might not be able to supply power for its air-conditioning system.
But an ANA spokesman insisted the failure was not linked to the lithium ion battery problems that had grounded the jets for four months from mid-January.
An All Nippon Airways 787 Dreamliner was held in Tokyo after a mechanical problem today, the fourth such incident for Dreamliners in 10 days
The Frankfurt-bound passengers were forced wait eight hours for another plane to fly them out, according to CNN.
ANA fixed the problem by exchanging components of a computer that controls electricity supply to the air-conditioning system, company spokesman Shinsuke Satake told Reuters.
The news comes after British Airways took delivery of its first ultra-green Boeing 787 Dreamliner today which will fly to Toronto, Canada, and Newark, U.S.
Despite the torrent of problems plaguing the fuel-efficient aircraft, BA said the delivery was an 'exciting milestone'.

More...
It's here! British Airways takes delivery of its first Dreamliner jet... and the first route will be from London to Canada
Missing plane carrying Missoni heir is found six months after vanishing off coast of Venezuela
Earlier this week, a Denver-bound United Airlines Dreamliner was diverted back to Houston after a problem with its brake indicator.
The previous week, a United flight from Denver to Tokyo was diverted to Seattle because of an indicated problem with its oil filter, while a Houston-bound flight from London made an unscheduled landing at Newark's Liberty International Airport due to a 'low oil indication'.
In January, the entire global fleet of 50 Dreamliners was grounded for four months after batteries in two planes overheated - the first time since 1979 that every plane of a particular type was ordered to stay out of the air for safety reasons.
The 787 Dreamliner began service in the U.S. in 2012.
Interior: The cabin is more spacious and the windows 30 per cent larger than on other aircraft
Troubled: The burnt auxiliary power unit battery, removed from an All Nippon Airways' 787 Dreamliner in Japan
The initial launch of the Dreamliner fleet stirred excitement in the airline industry.
It is 60 percent less noisy than other planes of its size and capability, with larger windows and more cabin space for passengers to move around.
Boeing chief executive Jim McNerney said the string of problems is not hurting consumer confidence.
'We have challenges like this every day. Some of them are more public than others,' he told
The Telegraph.
'We have stumbles from time to time.
'The data have shown us there was a dip initially but that our company got a lot of credit for the way that we approached the problem.
'The data tell us that our brand has emerged stronger from having gone through it in the right way.'
 
Wow.....this sucks....and whats worse is that there a problems with a whole lot of different things, not just one paricular cause.

My question is, if a normal plane had a problem with brakes, would it be reported to media? Or is everyone just reporting every little fault with the 787 to make it dramatic?
 
United’s 787 Cancellation Rate Outstrips Rest of Fleet

By Mary Jane Credeur - 2013-07-02T16:58:27Z

United Airlines (UAL), the only U.S. operator of Boeing Co. (BA)’s 787 Dreamliner, is canceling flights by those planes almost four times as often as on the rest of its fleet, signaling that the new jets remain prone to breakdowns.

Trips by United’s six Dreamliners were scrubbed 3.8 percent of the time from May 20 through June 26, according to Houston-based data tracker FlightAware.com, which reviewed the flights at the request of Bloomberg News. The rate excluding the 787s was 1 percent in the same period.

The data show the extent of disruptions at United since the 787s returned to service after a three-month global grounding to fix overheating batteries. While United isn’t discussing details of its cancellations, airlines in Japan scrapped flights with 787s last month for reasons that included a computer failure, balky engine and trouble with an anti-icing system.

“When you go buy a new car, sometimes you’re back at the dealer a week later for a minor thing,” said George Hamlin, a former executive at planemaker Airbus SAS who now runs Hamlin Transportation Consulting in Fairfax, Virginia. “But if you have to keep going back week after week, it’s a problem.”

Dreamliners around the world were ordered parked in January after two battery meltdowns, the first such grounding in the U.S. for an entire model since 1979. Public interest in the jet remains so high that FlightAware offers a Web application for real-time monitoring of every 787 around the world.
‘Teething Pains’

FlightAware compiled the flight figures from United’s data, which includes results such as the cancellations and delays displayed on airport monitors without detailing the causes.

United, a unit of United Continental Holdings Inc., is “very pleased” with the 787 even as the jet suffers “teething pains, like all new airplanes,” Chief Executive Officer Jeff Smisek told analysts at a Deutsche Bank AG conference last month. The 787 has the highest customer satisfaction scores of any plane in United’s fleet, he said.

“The 787 is going through a fine-tuning process,” said Mary Ryan, a United spokeswoman, likening the initial operational bumps to those experienced after Boeing unveiled the 777, its last all-new wide-body jet, in 1995.

“The 777 has turned out to be a highly reliable airplane,” she said by e-mail. “We see the 787 evolving into one as well.”
Emergency Landings

A United 787 flying to Tokyo from Denver was forced to make an emergency landing in Seattle last month after an oil-filter warning, and another 787 flying to Denver from Houston had to turn around for an emergency landing because of what the Chicago-based airline said was a “brake-indicator issue.”

The Dreamliners also lagged behind the rest of United’s fleet in on-time performance, running late 30 percent of the time since May 20, with an average of 72 minutes, according to FlightAware. Flights by the rest of United’s planes were tardy 24 percent of the time, and those delays averaged 63 minutes.

The airline’s 787s are part of the first wave of the aircraft in service, as Boeing fills an order backlog for more than 800 of the first two Dreamliner variants and prepares to start work on a third.

Dreamliners are equipped with “advanced health monitoring features” that allow Boeing and airlines to understand in-flight events as they occur and prepare for maintenance needs before the plane lands, said Doug Alder, a Boeing spokesman.

“The 787 is a great airplane and we know it will continue to receive heightened attention when reliability events occur in service,” Alder said by e-mail. Chicago-based Boeing is focused on improving the 787’s reliability, he said.

ANA Holdings Inc. (9202) and Japan Airlines Co. (9201) are the biggest operators of the plane, which was promoted to carriers as having a 20 percent increase in fuel economy over comparable twin-engine models.

Boeing’s use of composite-plastic construction helped focus attention on the 787 long before its commercial debut in 2011, and scrutiny from investors and customers grew even more intense when the first delivery ran 3 1/2 years late. Cancellations that are routine for other planes continue to draw notice because of that history.

“A certain amount of this is to be expected,” Hamlin said of the 787’s outsized rate for dropped flights. “New types have higher cancellation rates and squawks than existing types.”

To contact the reporter on this story: Mary Jane Credeur in Atlanta at [email protected].
 
Dreamliner fire at heathrow

Live on bbc news and some coverage on CNN.
Location matches where the batteries are...

No-one on the plane at the time.
 
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