The Brexit Thread

[Frequent visitor]

Good podcast between Chris Hayes and Mehdi Hassan on Brexit.

https://art19.com/shows/why-is-this...episodes/f7b21f86-8ca8-4cc2-8036-98805b69b25c

Specifically liked the part where the top dogs behind Brexit are all making very sure to insulate themselves from any of the fallout.

I am not sure if you are cynical, as has been said wrongly of me, or sceptical, which I am.

I generally do not trust either business people or politicians, with exceptions of course. My job was to enforce rules made by politicians by 'auditing' businesses or dealing with smugglers. I have had many lies told to me. But I enjoyed many of the private conversations with the people I met or visited.

 

[Frequent visitor]

Not sure, the deal for the investments is apparently signed, not sure if the trade conditions are a condition precedent.

It's 4 billion of public money and 4 billion of private investment (not sure if the private part is conditional, it probably is).

I feel that businesses should stand on their own feet. Whistling on my own of course.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

I am not sure if you are cynical, as has been said wrongly of me, or sceptical, which I am.

I generally do not trust either business people or politicians, with exceptions of course. My job was to enforce rules made by politicians by 'auditing' businesses or dealing with smugglers. I have had many lies told to me. But I enjoyed many of the private conversations with the people I met or visited.

Not sure what this has to do with my post?

 

[Frequent visitor]

Not sure what this has to do with my post?

Just ignore me then!


As to brexit, I doubt we will ever agree. With my friends, some just do not discuss it, as it upsets them. It does not upset me that much, but some of the goings on do to some extent. I suggest we just agree to differ. OK?

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Just ignore me then!


As to brexit, I doubt we will ever agree. With my friends, some just do not discuss it, as it upsets them. It does not upset me that much, but some of the goings on do to some extent. I suggest we just agree to differ. OK?

Sure.

 

[noxibox]

So I think you should withdraw your assertion that 'being the poor doormat of the EU the leave side has portrayed them as.' It is factually incorrect.

You'll have to take that up with the Leave campaigners. I didn't run their campaign or control their portrayal of the UK's position in the EU. I also can't control the fact that it is still part of the campaign's rhetoric.

 

[noxibox]

We have similar examples with the NHS for example, where the fuss about so called 'health tourists' led to UK born citizens living elsewhere - such as France or Spain - being denied access to the NHS, which they had previously enjoyed. Many had contributed to it during their lifetimes work,and felt hard done by. The UK and the French came to an arrangement whereby the UK paid the French to give UK citizens resident in France access to the French health service, which seems good sense.

Denying people who have retired abroad access to the NHS because of alleged abuse by illegal immigrants and asylum seekers, which is what it seems to have been about, would appear to be a typical boneheaded response from the authorities. Especially when EU citizens have access to the NHS while living in the UK. Not to mention that the UK health system effectively pays for the medical care in the end anyway.

I can't see why the UK would have needed to make a special arrangement with France when they have reciprocal agreements across the EU. UK citizens living on the continent already had access to local medical services as part of that agreement.

 

[Frequent visitor]

Denying people who have retired abroad access to the NHS because of alleged abuse by illegal immigrants and asylum seekers, which is what it seems to have been about, would appear to be a typical boneheaded response from the authorities. Especially when EU citizens have access to the NHS while living in the UK. Not to mention that the UK health system effectively pays for the medical care in the end anyway.

I can't see why the UK would have needed to make a special arrangement with France when they have reciprocal agreements across the EU. UK citizens living on the continent already had access to local medical services as part of that agreement.

The 'justification' seems to have been to avoid discrimination against either EU residents - we all have to be teraeted the same under EU law - or in other cases to avoid accusations of racial discrimination. No further comment needed.

I think the French situation was of quite long standing, mayce even pre EU/EC/EEC. No doubt our senior Civil Servants were motivated by their own travel habits!

The level of cover around the EU varies considerably for local citizens. For UK tourists there are basic services with the appropriate card from the NHS, but some countries reportedly make difficulties on occasion. Spain was one such, but way back when my daughter took ill during a visit to the Pope's youth visit in Galicia she was treated extremely well. That will have been after 1984 sometime.

I am not sure what the [position is with brits resident in the EU. But I frequently happened on such coming back to the EU for treatmernt in the 90s. I understand that what is free under the NHS requires a contribution in some EU countries for their citizens.

 

[f2wohf]

I think it was of quite long standing, mayce even pre EU/EC/EEC. No doubt our senior Civil Servants were motivated by their own travel habits!

The level of cover around the EU varies considerably for local citizens. For UK tourists there are basic services with the appropriate card from the NHS, but some countries reportedly make difficulties on occasion. Spain was one such, but way back when my daughter took ill during a visit to the Pope's youth visit in Galicia she was treated extremely well. That will have been after 1984 sometime.

I am not sure what the [position is with brits resident in the EU. But I frequently happened on such coming back to the EU for treatmernt in the 90s. I understand that what is free under the NHS requires a contribution in some EU countries for their citizens.

The rule of the country applies so UK tourists or residents are subjected to the rule of the country where they get treatment.

For example, in France you'd have 1€ to pay for the GP (if he charges the health insurance rate which is like 23€ which is seldom) + the shortfall if you don't have gap cover. My GP in Paris is 60€ so you'd end up paying 38€ if you don't have gap cover.

In Spain, it's public clinics per ward which (at least in 2011) were totally free.

 

[The_Assimilator]

Nigel Farage’s office tells constituent his degrees are ‘pointless’ after he raises questions about Brexit

... Peter Cook wrote to his MEP asking for some clarification about Brexit and the net benefits of leaving the European Union.

"Answers such as getting our country back are not acceptable," said the 60-year-old from Gillingham. "I need specific information economically, socially, politically, environmentally and so on."

...

He received a response from someone called Ben, who works in Mr Farage's office.

Claiming that “democracy is the real Brexit prize”, he replied with “suggested general reading” which included philosophers such as Thomas Hobbes and John Locke and economist Ludwig Von Mises.

"Change of course always involves some disruption, and there is a short term cost to that, but the long term gains from the above are priceless," he wrote. "The mistake was joining the EU project in the first place - that is where responsibility for the costs involved in leaving should fall."

Unimpressed, Mr Cook replied: "You have not answered my question - please try again.”

Mr Farage's office responded with: "I think you'll find I have, you're just too closed minded to see it."

Mr Cook replied: "Priceless is not an answer to the question of NPV. It is a pointless platitude," only to receive the response: "Like your degrees perhaps."

Mr Cook said: "Please secure a response to my question. I want to hear from my MEP not some middle man."

Mr Farage’s office responded with: "I can't help that you don't like the answer, or democracy."

...

Asked about the response from his office, Mr Farage told The Independent that the advice about the philosophers was valid, he said: "Most MEPs would have just put the email into the bin."

Farage, once again, showing himself and his fellows up to be the clueless a**clowns they are. Farage should be fired from his free ride as an MEP and when he complains, they can tell him to survive off philosophy, just like his own advice.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Farage, once again, showing himself and his fellows up to be the clueless a**clowns they are. Farage should be fired from his free ride as an MEP and when he complains, they can tell him to survive off philosophy, just like his own advice.

Clueless in what universe? The only issue here is their "bedside manner" i.e. they were not appropriately polite and reserved.

They were however factually correct, brexit is about self-determination, the reasons for needing self-determination and the benefits of having it are properly explained by the works of people like Ludwig von Mises in particular. Anyone who believes it is even possible to attach a remotely accurate number to it is deluded. What exactly is the point in asking for a figure that is impossible to calculate?

 

[f2wohf]

Can UK trade with Africa start to fill gap left by Brexit?

Theresa May is making a three day whistle-stop tour of sub-Saharan Africa on a mission to strengthen Britain’s post-Brexit trade and investment with a continent that hosts some of the fastest growing economies in the world. The Federation of Small Businesses welcomed the prime minister’s initiative. “Africa is an important market for small firms, and as the continent continues to grow, business links will no doubt increase with it,” said Mike Cherry, FSB national chairman. However, the entire African continent accounts for just 3 per cent of all UK goods and services exports. By contrast, Europe takes the lion’s share — 54 per cent — of UK trade. Brussels is not the reason behind Britain’s weak trade links with Africa. France, Germany and Italy — all EU members — export more than double the value of goods to the continent than the UK, according to the International Trade Centre. Even Spain, which has an economy half the size of the UK’s, exports more than Britain.

The UK’s trade presence in Africa was not always this small: until the late-1990s Britain accounted for nearly 7 per cent of the continent’s imports. Now that share has dropped to just over 2 per cent. “The reasons for a decline in trade between the UK and Africa are complex,” said Peg Murray-Evans, an expert on EU-Africa trade relations at the University of York. “These include the lack of competitive exports from Africa and the rise of other competitive economies.”

More at https://www.ft.com/content/600603dc-aaac-11e8-94bd-cba20d67390c

 

[The_Assimilator]

Clueless in what universe? The only issue here is their "bedside manner" i.e. they were not appropriately polite and reserved.

They were however factually correct, brexit is about self-determination, the reasons for needing self-determination and the benefits of having it are properly explained by the works of people like Ludwig von Mises in particular. Anyone who believes it is even possible to attach a remotely accurate number to it is deluded. What exactly is the point in asking for a figure that is impossible to calculate?

Ah, so it's reals > feels when you're criticising the left, but the other way around is okay when you're the one being criticised. Gotcha.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Ah, so it's reals > feels when you're criticising the left, but the other way around is okay when you're the one being criticised. Gotcha.

If you believe free market principles are just feelings then nobody can help you, enjoy your delusion, wear that Che Guevara shirt proudly comrade Assimilator.

Of course should the hypothetical constituent write you in future and ask you for the net present value of pure socialism you will provide some accurate numbers yes?

 

[Vox Populi Vox Dei]

Brexit breakthrough sends the pound soaring as Barnier FINALLY says the EU will offer Britain a unique deal after months of stalemate - but warns he still will not allow 'a la carte' choice from the single market

EU negotiator Michel Barnier finally conceded he would have to offer Britain a unique deal on Brexit today in the first hint of a climb down from Brussels.

In remarks that sent the pound soaring up against the euro and the dollar, Mr Barnier promised a 'partnership with Britain such as has never been with any other third country'.

Mr Barnier has repeatedly insisted Britain must choose from an existing model used by either Norway or Canada - deal the UK say are unacceptable.

The Brussels chief still insists Britain cannot have an 'a la carte' choice of benefits from the EU single market.

Brexiteers welcomed his 'more optimistic tone' but warned that actions speak louder and urged the EU to get on with coming up with a new offer.

A Government spokesman responded to the comments, saying: 'Both the UK and the EU are committed to reaching the best deal possible for both sides.

'We have put forward our proposals for this deal in our White Paper and we stand ready to work at pace with the EU over the coming weeks.'

The intervention is a significant boost for Theresa May who has spent the summer trying to win support in EU capitals for her Brexit blueprint.

Her Chequers plan - which triggered the resignation of Boris Johnson and David Davis in July - had been rejected in previous statements by EU leaders.

 

[Vox Populi Vox Dei]

Nigel Farage’s office tells constituent his degrees are ‘pointless’ after he raises questions about Brexit



Farage, once again, showing himself and his fellows up to be the clueless a**clowns they are. Farage should be fired from his free ride as an MEP and when he complains, they can tell him to survive off philosophy, just like his own advice.

Surely you should be more worried that a drunkard like Jean-Claude Juncker can climb up the greasy pole to the top of the EU bureaucracy?

 

[f2wohf]

Surely you should be more worried that a drunkard like Jean-Claude Juncker can climb up the greasy pole to the top of the EU bureaucracy?

So Farage is fine because Juncker is bad?

Zuma was fine, it’s not like he was Amin Dada!

Great logic!

 

[Vox Populi Vox Dei]

So Farage is fine because Juncker is bad?

Zuma was fine, it’s not like he was Amin Dada!

Great logic!

Nope, what Assimilator is so minor/ not serious that I don't particularly care. The constituent was being a bit of a knob, to be honest.

The funny thing is despite Farage being anti-EU, he is probably the best known MEP

 

[buka001]

Pity he hardly ever pitched up to lobby for the UK.

 

[f2wohf]

Pity he hardly ever pitched up to lobby for the UK.

You could ask Jacob what he does!

https://www.thedti.gov.za/contacts/feoMission.jsp?regionid=5&missionid=30