The Brexit Thread

[NarrowBandFtw]

Maybe the reason you are only seeing articles that say it will be bad is because all the evidence points to it being bad

No, just no.

In what universe has the media ever gotten something so monumentally complex even half right? Wait, let's time travel back to the 2nd Iraq war when every single media outlet was believing in WMD's, that was a sign of it being true yeah?

Until they make at least some genuine attempts at exploring the upside they cannot be taken seriously at all.

 

[Vox Populi Vox Dei]

Some big name Tory MP’s (including Winston Churchill’s grandson) voted against the government and May for Grieve’s amendment.

The 26 Tory MPs that voted to give MPs more power if May's Brexit deal falls

• Heidi Allen
• Guto Bebb
• Richard Benyon
• Nick Boles
• Ken Clarke
• Jonathan Djanogly
• Sir Michael Fallon
• George Freeman
• Richard Graham
• Damian Green
• Justine Greening
• Dominic Grieve
• Sir Oliver Heald
• Jo Johnson
• Dr Phillip Lee
• Jeremy Lefroy
• Sir Oliver Letwin
• Nicky Morgan
• Robert Neill
• Sir Nicholas Soames
• Anna Soubry
• John Stevenson
• Derek Thomas
• Ed Vaizey
• Dr Sarah Wollaston

What is also common is none of those will ever be leader of the Conservative Party. All Lib Dems in disguise. All betraying the 2017 manifesto (mind you, so does Treason May's deal).

 

[Dave]

No, just no.

In what universe has the media ever gotten something so monumentally complex even half right? Wait, let's time travel back to the 2nd Iraq war when every single media outlet was believing in WMD's, that was a sign of it being true yeah?

Until they make at least some genuine attempts at exploring the upside they cannot be taken seriously at all.

Every single media outlet?

 

[Dave]

What is also common is none of those will ever be leader of the Conservative Party. All Lib Dems in disguise. All betraying the 2017 manifesto (mind you, so does Treason May's deal).

I could have called you an ignorant idiot without a clue on what’s happening in the UK, but as it’s N&CA I won’t.

If you don’t think there are some Tory heavyweights in that list you know less than I thought you did...

 

[zippy]

No, just no.

In what universe has the media ever gotten something so monumentally complex even half right? Wait, let's time travel back to the 2nd Iraq war when every single media outlet was believing in WMD's, that was a sign of it being true yeah?

Until they make at least some genuine attempts at exploring the upside they cannot be taken seriously at all.

CNN and Fox != the entire media

Most if not all of the UK media and EU media thought the whole WMD thing was bs

 

[Dave]

Other Tory MP’s coming out openly for EEA membership (the Norway option) and pointed out another EEA member was referenced in the Vote Leave referendum leaflets. Both Letwin and Nick Boles mentioned on the news.

Boles has referenced these as proof the EEA option isn’t a breach of promises made at the referendum if EFTA/EEA choice is made.






Terrible looking website though

http://betterbrexit.org.uk/

 

[Dave]

Boles’ Twitter today, sounds like the DUP are also in this.

 

[zippy]

Other Tory MP’s coming out openly for EEA membership (the Norway option) and pointed out another EEA member was referenced in the Vote Leave referendum leaflets. Both Letwin and Nick Boles mentioned on the news.

Boles has referenced these as proof the EEA option isn’t a breach of promises made at the referendum if EFTA/EEA choice is made.

View attachment 587932


View attachment 587934

Terrible looking website though

http://betterbrexit.org.uk/

Not sure where they got “only 5% of British businesses export to the EU”. Means 5% are responsible for +/- 40%. Convenient choice of numbers

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7851

 

[Dave]

Not sure where they got “only 5% of British businesses export to the EU”. Means 5% are responsible for +/- 40%. Convenient choice of numbers

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7851

It’s Vote Leave, it’s pretty well universally accepted they told many many lies

The leaflets reference Iceland, and that’s now been taken to mean the Vote Leave ‘manifesto’ included EEA/EFTA membership as an outcome and by choosing it there’s no betrayal of ‘the people’.

When ‘the people’ they’re worrying about realise that EEA membership includes the 4 freedoms...

 

[noxibox]

The polar opposite of socialism is individualism(liberalism)

Well you'd be wrong about that.

 

[Vox Populi Vox Dei]

I could have called you an ignorant idiot without a clue on what’s happening in the UK, but as it’s N&CA I won’t.

If you don’t think there are some Tory heavyweights in that list you know less than I thought you did...

I don't think you can read. Are you disputing my notion that any of them will be a future Conservative leader? The only thing they have in common is they are so-called Tory 'modernisers' i.e. Wets, from the left of the party. All you do is expose your ignorance of UK conservative politics and the direction of travel.

Besides, a bit rich for you to say that I have no clue what is happening in the UK...you basically lived there couldn't predict a Leave vote.

 

[Vox Populi Vox Dei]

It’s Vote Leave, it’s pretty well universally accepted they told many many lies

The leaflets reference Iceland, and that’s now been taken to mean the Vote Leave ‘manifesto’ included EEA/EFTA membership as an outcome and by choosing it there’s no betrayal of ‘the people’.

When ‘the people’ they’re worrying about realise that EEA membership includes the 4 freedoms...

What about these lies? The Remoaners little red bus

 

[Unhappy1]

What about these lies? The Remoaners little red bus

That looks fake, you sure its been verified?

I tried verifying the quotes on the bus assuming someone photo shopped them on there, it fails at the first one. "Brexit will lead to ww3" , is just a sensationalist headline by the mirror, nobody actually said that as far as i can tell.

So you have tried to deflect from leaver lies with more lies, which is rather ironic

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

That looks fake, you sure its been verified?

I tried verifying the quotes on the bus assuming someone photo shopped them on there, it fails at the first one. "Brexit will lead to ww3" , is just a sensationalist headline by the mirror, nobody actually said that as far as i can tell.

So you have tried to deflect from leaver lies with more lies, which is rather ironic

You want some bremoan lies?

 

[Vox Populi Vox Dei]

That looks fake, you sure its been verified?

I tried verifying the quotes on the bus assuming someone photo shopped them on there, it fails at the first one. "Brexit will lead to ww3" , is just a sensationalist headline by the mirror, nobody actually said that as far as i can tell.

So you have tried to deflect from leaver lies with more lies, which is rather ironic

Yes, it wasn't a real bus. It was made on Twitter by Leavers for fun since all Remoaners go on about is the 350m/ week going to the NHS as if that was the thing that swung the vote despite lots of evidence that UK has a long history of Euroscepticism, far above that of other European countries + evidence recorded after the vote that sovereignty was the main reason people voted Leave.

The WW3 comment actually relates to the ex Prime Minister, David Cameron, saying leaving the EU will risk Europe "descending into war". So maybe not WW3 but the thrust of the quote is correct. Hardly a "lie".

 

[Ancalagon]

Yes, it wasn't a real bus. It was made on Twitter by Leavers for fun since all Remoaners go on about is the 350m/ week going to the NHS as if that was the thing that swung the vote despite lots of evidence that UK has a long history of Euroscepticism, far above that of other European countries + evidence recorded after the vote that sovereignty was the main reason people voted Leave.

The WW3 comment actually relates to the ex Prime Minister, David Cameron, saying leaving the EU will risk Europe "descending into war". So maybe not WW3 but the thrust of the quote is correct. Hardly a "lie".

In any case, I think economic theory is pretty clear on the subject of free trade. The closer a countries ties with its neighbours in terms of trade, and the fewer barriers there are to trade, the more that both countries benefit. Being a part of the EU as it is now basically means as few barriers as can be. Brexit will inevitably lead to more barriers which will create trade friction. It is unavoidable.

 

[C4Cat]

Yes, it wasn't a real bus. It was made on Twitter by Leavers for fun since all Remoaners go on about is the 350m/ week going to the NHS as if that was the thing that swung the vote despite lots of evidence that UK has a long history of Euroscepticism, far above that of other European countries + evidence recorded after the vote that sovereignty was the main reason people voted Leave.

The WW3 comment actually relates to the ex Prime Minister, David Cameron, saying leaving the EU will risk Europe "descending into war". So maybe not WW3 but the thrust of the quote is correct. Hardly a "lie".

It's fake news, Chris, own it ffs

 

[Vox Populi Vox Dei]

In any case, I think economic theory is pretty clear on the subject of free trade. The closer a countries ties with its neighbours in terms of trade, and the fewer barriers there are to trade, the more that both countries benefit. Being a part of the EU as it is now basically means as few barriers as can be. Brexit will inevitably lead to more barriers which will create trade friction. It is unavoidable.

But Brexit isn't purely about economics. If it was purely about economics, then Remain would have won easily.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1070098128064446464

https://twitter.com/x/status/1070101534866894848

It's fake news, Chris, own it ffs

It's not fake news.

 

[Ancalagon]

But Brexit isn't purely about economics:

Sure, but then don't say that news that Brexit will cause financial hardship for the UK is fake news. It is true. There is no scenario in which the UK's finances will be better off than they were before. At best, they might get to the same position if they join the EEA instead. And if they do that, they are subject to a lot of EU rules with no say in them, which seems pointless to me.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Sure, but then don't say that news that Brexit will cause financial hardship for the UK is fake news

sure, no problem with that, BUT:

There is no scenario in which the UK's finances will be better off than they were before

then stop repeating this fake news as well
No scenario whatsoever? Really? They can't make deals with countries they've been legally blocked from doing before? It won't have ANY impact on their finances?

A vastly rich alien species can't choose to enrich the UK due to its newfound independence when they land on this planet? They can't suddenly strike gold / oil / gas deposits?

You can say the probability is low if you wish, but every time you repeat the lie that there is "no scenario" that they can be better off you're just repeating fake news yourself.