The Brexit Thread

[Pitbull]

The problem is that the UK wants the impossible. They want to maintain the Belfast Agreement while also leaving the single market

See Toxic, not that hard... Simple answer above. This makes it interesting. I would be of the view that the Belfast agreement supersedes the EU agreement. And this again, making it the EUs problem. If the UK honors the agreement, the EU are responsible for having to be able to have goods sent to across be checked. UK and Ireland (NORTHER Ireland Toxic) have an standing agreement. According to ITA (again if I understand it correctly) will have the responsibility rest on the EU to comply. Which they can't unless the enforce the border checks both sides.

 

[Pitbull]

Ok so let me get this straight..

The UK wants to leave the EU, but its the EUs problem that there is a land border between the 2 entities?

Maybe go read the international Trade agreement. But like I said, I could be understanding it wrong.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Maybe go read the international Trade agreement. But like I said, I could be understanding it wrong.

Given that you didn't know the difference between Ireland and Northern Ireland, you are understanding it wrong.

 

[theratman]

https://www.politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-emmanuel-macron-eu-army-to-complement-nato/

This is something that does not sit well with me at all, and is why I support Brexit now. These countries are supposed to maintain sovereignty, but it seems that that idea is slowly eroding. Many EU countries don't have the funds for this, so the richer nations will have to pay out a larger share. The average person on the street that wants free healthcare and education will have to sacrifice.

Doubt it'll happen anytime soon and was a response to Trump more than anything.

"Angela Merkel has said EU leaders should one day consider “a real, true European army” shortly after Donald Trump ramped up a Twitter attack on Emmanuel Macronover the same idea."

"To a mix of applause and jeers from Eurosceptic MEPs, she said: “We have to look at the vision of one day creating a real, true European army.” The chancellor said the idea would complement Nato, but gave no details on when the ambitious idea could become reality."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...cron-in-calling-for-a-real-true-european-army

I wouldn't worry about it Emjay.

 

[access]

they could always use facial recognition ai and passport scanning systems to speed up passport control, mounted auto turrets on the sides of a gauntlet passageway

 

[Pitbull]

Given that you didn't know the difference between Ireland and Northern Ireland, you are understanding it wrong.

You are assuming I didn't know. You have all been talking of Ireland similar to how I have. In reference to Brexit, Ireland part of UK (Northern Ireland) you can nit pict at issues all you want. Have you had a look at the ITA and how it is an issue for the EU if there is no Backstop? Compliance rests with the EU, not the UK.

 

[C4Cat]

See Toxic, not that hard... Simple answer above. This makes it interesting. I would be of the view that the Belfast agreement supersedes the EU agreement. And this again, making it the EUs problem. If the UK honors the agreement, the EU are responsible for having to be able to have goods sent to across be checked. UK and Ireland (NORTHER Ireland Toxic) have an standing agreement. According to ITA (again if I understand it correctly) will have the responsibility rest on the EU to comply. Which they can't unless the enforce the border checks both sides.

The EU doesn't have a problem with a border, it's the UK that has a problem. Does the UK want a hard border or not? If so then it needs to dissolve the Good Friday agreement which it's unwilling to to. Or it needs to allow Northern Ireland to continue the agreement with Ireland and put the customs border between Northern Ireland and the UK mainland which it is also unwilling to to do.

Essentially, the UK government has forced itself into a trilemma in which it has adopted three positions, only two of which can be achieved at any one time: to avoid a hard border within the island of Ireland; for the UK as whole to leave both the customs union and the single market; and to rule out any special arrangements for Northern Ireland in relation to a customs union and single market.

Any free trade agreement doesn’t avoid a hard border as it falls short of a customs union

http://ukandeu.ac.uk/good-friday-agreement-why-it-matters-in-brexit/

 

[Cray]

The EU doesn't have a problem with a border, it's the UK that has a problem. Does the UK want a hard border or not? If so then it needs to dissolve the Good Friday agreement which it's unwilling to to. Or it needs to allow Northern Ireland to continue the agreement with Ireland and put the customs border between Northern Ireland and the UK mainland which it is also unwilling to to do.

http://ukandeu.ac.uk/good-friday-agreement-why-it-matters-in-brexit/

And the DUP have rejected the idea of Northern Ireland being treated differently to the rest of the UK,

 

[C4Cat]

Honestly, I don't think Theresa May gets the respect she deserves.

 

[Pitbull]

The EU doesn't have a problem with a border, it's the UK that has a problem. Does the UK want a hard border or not? If so then it needs to dissolve the Good Friday agreement which it's unwilling to to. Or it needs to allow Northern Ireland to continue the agreement with Ireland and put the customs border between Northern Ireland and the UK mainland which it is also unwilling to to do.

http://ukandeu.ac.uk/good-friday-agreement-why-it-matters-in-brexit/

This I agree with 100%.

Picture this, England keeps to their Belfast agreement. EU can't freely trade with the Republic of Ireland unless there is a border with Northern Ireland as per the ITA. So for the Republic of Ireland to trade with the EU, they need a border check on good between Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. This means fark all to the UK. The Republic of Ireland and the EU need to resolve the issue and be responsible for the check or not comply with the ITA.

I don't see how this is the UKs problem.

 

[ToxicBunny]

This I agree with 100%.

Picture this, England keeps to their Belfast agreement. EU can't freely trade with the Republic of Ireland unless there is a border with Northern Ireland as per the ITA. So for the Republic of Ireland to trade with the EU, they need a border check on good between Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. This means fark all to the UK. The Republic of Ireland and the EU need to resolve the issue and be responsible for the check or not comply with the ITA.

I don't see how this is the UKs problem.

I don't see how you can NOT see how this is the UKs problem.....

 

[C4Cat]

This I agree with 100%.

Picture this, England keeps to their Belfast agreement. EU can't freely trade with the Republic of Ireland unless there is a border with Northern Ireland as per the ITA. So for the Republic of Ireland to trade with the EU, they need a border check on good between Republic of Ireland and Northern.

This makes no sense whatsoever. Ireland is part of the EU, it doesn't 'trade' with the EU.

 

[Pitbull]

Any free trade agreement doesn’t avoid a hard border as it falls short of a customs union,

That is the crux of the matter. And a Leave from the UK, makes this the responsibility of the EU and Republic of Ireland.

The UK wants the Belfast agreement to stand, so Ireland and the EU needs to be responsible for compliance. I still don't see it as being the UKs problem.

 

[Pitbull]

This makes no sense whatsoever. Ireland is part of the EU, it doesn't 'trade' with the EU.

O ffs,

Can we stop the nit picking. The trade, being no customs inspections and duties.... Items moving from point a to point b. What would you have me call it?

 

[Pitbull]

I don't see how you can NOT see how this is the UKs problem.....

Explain it to me then?

 

[C4Cat]

That is the crux of the matter. And a Leave from the UK, makes this the responsibility of the EU and Republic of Ireland.

The UK wants the Belfast agreement to stand, so Ireland and the EU needs to be responsible for compliance. I still don't see it as being the UKs problem.

The UK wants the Belfast Agreement to stand and also wants a hard border with the EU. This is not possible, as Ireland is the EU and the Belfast Agreement requires free trade between Ireland and Northern Ireland

 

[C4Cat]

O ffs,

Can we stop the nit picking. The trade, being no customs inspections and duties.... Items moving from point a to point b. What would you have me call it?

It's not nitpicking. Does the UK want a hard border with the EU or not. The Belfast Agreement doesn't allow such a border.

 

[Emjay]

Doubt it'll happen anytime soon and was a response to Trump more than anything.

"Angela Merkel has said EU leaders should one day consider “a real, true European army” shortly after Donald Trump ramped up a Twitter attack on Emmanuel Macronover the same idea."

"To a mix of applause and jeers from Eurosceptic MEPs, she said: “We have to look at the vision of one day creating a real, true European army.” The chancellor said the idea would complement Nato, but gave no details on when the ambitious idea could become reality."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...cron-in-calling-for-a-real-true-european-army

I wouldn't worry about it Emjay.

I am not concerned at all. It will fall apart because these countries cannot afford it.

 

[Cray]

Explain it to me then?

The UK wants a hard brexxit which requires a hard border between it and the EU, if the EU and the UK are under different customs regimes this means there need to be checks on both sides of the border, one by EU customs and one by UK customs.

 

[Pitbull]

The UK wants the Belfast Agreement to stand and also wants a hard birder with the EU. This is not possible, as Ireland is the EU and the Belfast Agreement requires free trade between Ireland and Northern Ireland

Yes, free trade is 100% possible. Between the Republic and Northern Ireland. The fact that it falls outside of the Custom Union lies with the EU. So the EU, and Republic of Ireland needs to come up with some sort of a way to comply with ITA and free trade between Northern Ireland. You guys are complicating the issue way more than it needs to be.

The EU doesn't want free trade with Northern Ireland as goods will come to the UK via Northern Ireland duty free. (That's what I would have done if I was running the UK) So changes nothing to the UK/England when it comes to duties on goods as there will be none). If the EU wants duties on these goods because they will end up in the Uk/England anyway duty free, THEY need to come up with a solution to it.

The main reason for the UK leaving the UK is because of disagreement with EU rules and laws pertaining to open borders for PEOPLE. The people of the UK voted to not be part of the EU passport laws where they have zero control of who enters. EU passport holder can walk in freely... The politicians, and the remoaners are trying to use this as some sort of punishment for the UK leaving the EU. For the EU to send goods to the Republic of Ireland duty free will be a violation of the ITA due to no custom check between the Republic and Northern Ireland.

This is 100% a problem for the EU and Republic of Ireland, doesn't phase the UK at all. No-Deal will be a fark storm for the EU and Republic of Ireland.