The Brexit Thread

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NarrowBandFtw said:
Would Bojo care in the least? Looks like just another anti-Britain commie outing herself, good riddance.
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Well the commies don't want another election now that they've grabbed power in parliament undemocraticaly, because they know they'll lose. That is problematic for Bojo.
 
Dave said:
If he pulls it off (and it’s successful) he’ll be a hero, if it crashes and causes the problems many are forecasting he’ll be viewed as a bigger failure than Chamberlain.

If he chickens out he’ll be a pub quiz answer...
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He's in a real kek spot, which makes is going to make for an interesting couple of weeks. Feel that there are still many twists and turns coming up for Bojo.
 
Dave said:
Another kicking for Bojo, Amber Rudd resigns as Cabinet Minister and quits the Conservative Party.

Quite a vicious resignation letter as well.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1170429481879842817

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How is that a kicking? Complete incorrect interpretation of events. As another Conservative Minister said , a condition of being a Minister in the BoJo government was to support No Deal. She was also the bottom of the Conservative Home Cabinet rankings. As a No.10 insider has said, the deadwood needs to be cleared out. The fewer obstructionists in the Tory party, the better.

Despite her constituency voting 56 percent to leave the EU, she was prominent Tory Remoaner and and her brother is the multi-millionaire Roland Rudd, head of the People's Vote campaign. She's hardly a big loss - she was going to lose her seat anyway at the next election. Just another over-promoted establishment shill. I'm not sure why BoJo even had her in Cabinet.

By the most accurate pollster in the 2019 elections released a poll last night and shows the Tories well ahead. Or even take the average of the latest 3 polls. Perhaps you might contemplate that as Cummings has noted, the public can take a vastly different view of events than that of the media class, who are both anti-Bojo and anti-Brexit and that has the lens one has to remind oneself when the mainstream media report on events.
 
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rietrot said:
Well the commies don't want another election now that they've grabbed power in parliament undemocraticaly, because they know they'll lose. That is problematic for Bojo.
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Yup, here is a great meme... :laugh:.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1169933579738079232

Indeed Labour are breaking new ground by refusing an election. Rather unprecedented...and yet they accuse Boris of a coup. The laughable hypocrisy is VERY CLEAR to the public.

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Ken Clarke puts a boot into Bojo as well.

Ken Clarke: ‘I’m not sure yet, but I may protest and vote Lib Dem’

As we talk in his office in Westminster’s Portcullis House, Clarke reflects on the irony that Johnson is acting like a fanatic when he is not really a politician with any deep convictions. “He’s not committed very powerfully to anything. He’s not frightfully interested in policy.

He came to see me in this room and tried to persuade me to vote for him in the leadership election. We had quite a cheery conversation, and his main point to me was that he was a one-nation Conservative. He never was a hardline Brexiter. That was a last-minute decision he made to join that side. Unfortunately, he’s now surrounded himself with hardcore, ultra-rightwing, zany people.”

“In its present state, I would not join the Conservative party. I would not follow Boris Johnson in this wild, rightwing nationalist stuff. The party wasn’t like that when I joined.”

Other Tories of his persuasion have switched to the Lib Dems. Could he? At the age of 79, “it would be rather silly, wouldn’t it? I am so obviously a Conservative. All my friends would laugh.” He might, though, very well vote for the Lib Dems.

“I haven’t made my mind up which way I’m going to vote. It depends where Boris has taken us by then. If I was going to cast a protest vote, I would follow the Conservative tradition of voting Lib Dem.”

Even if that risked putting Jeremy Corbyn into No 10? Which will be the more terrifying prospect: Corbyn as prime minister or Johnson put back in Downing Street on a no-deal manifesto?

“Both are awful prospects, but I think a no-deal Brexit could cause far more damage to our future economic success than Corbyn.”

It is another sign of strange times that Ken Clarke, who never gave any quarter in many decades of battling Labour, can think that his own party could inflict a worst fate on Britain than a Corbyn government.
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www.theguardian.com

Ken Clarke: ‘I’m not sure yet, but I may protest and vote Lib Dem’

Last week the veteran Conservative MP was stripped of the party whip. Here he discusses his plans for the future
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Chris_the_Brit said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1169933579738079232

Indeed Labour are breaking new ground by refusing an election. Rather unprecedented...and yet they accuse Boris of a coup. The laughable hypocrisy is VERY CLEAR to the public.
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What happened last time the UK was leaving the EU, the Prime Minister was trying to undermine parliament and members of the ruling party quit or crossed the floor? That way we can tell if this is unprecedented.

rietrot said:
Well the commies don't want another election now that they've grabbed power in parliament undemocraticaly, because they know they'll lose. That is problematic for Bojo.
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There are no communists in parliament. And no-one has grabbed power. Of course this is all problematic for Johnson. He thought everyone was going to bow down to him and let him do whatever he wanted.
 
noxibox said:
There are no communists in parliament. And no-one has grabbed power. Of course this is all problematic for Johnson. He thought everyone was going to bow down to him and let him do whatever he wanted.
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Not nessecery what he wants. What the people voted for in the referendum. I thought that was the job of the MPs to represent the people that voted for them. And it is pretty accurate to call the MPs doing whatever they want a power grab.
 
Using the limited time the U.K. Parliament had to address the possibility of a No Deal Brexit, Corbyn, the other opposition parties, and 21 Tories clearly decided to spend their few days left in Parliament obsessed with passing a law that demands that BoJo, against his own will and government, ask the E.U. for an extension of Article 50 until January 31, 2020.

But Johnson may have been way ahead of them. He launched the epic play by proroguing parliament, which is basically closing the current Parliament session, until mid-October with the queen's approval. This means that all Parliament business must be concluded by Monday (or at latest Thursday). Once proroguing had occurred, the Remainers went into a Boris-induced tizzy to make sure a law was passed to stop him from taking the U.K. out of the E.U. without a deal on October 31, as long as no deal had been reached with the E.U. by October 19.

This is precisely where the PM has likely wanted them all along. Employing a "rope a dope" strategy, Johnson has effectively forced Parliament to use all the time left, now that the proroguing has occurred and been declared legal by the U.K. courts, to mire itself in passing the Article 50 extension law. Like the boxer Muhammad Ali, who made rope-a-dope famous, BoJo leaned back into parliament's ropes and took hit after hit, causing the opponents to not only wear themselves out, but provide time for him to get ready for his final counter-punch.

If the above analysis is correct, Johnson's knockout blow is happening now, as he met the queen this weekend in order to clearly and firmly advise the queen to withhold assent.

Beautifully orchestrating and executing his stratagem, BoJo will have outwitted his opponents again in this well thought out fight plan by:

1) forcing the opposition to spend the very short time they had to stop a No Deal Brexit mired in creating the extension legislation, then...
2) sifting out the twenty-one traitors within his own Tory Party who voted against him, while at the same time...
3) casually scheduling a meeting with the queen this weekend in order that...
4) he can quietly advise the Queen not to assent to the bill he has called the "surrender" bill.
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His opponents were so busy patting themselves on the back for their seemingly witty and unstoppable legislative efforts to thwart the will of the U.K.'s people (who voted 52% to 48% to leave the E.U. in 2016), heaping insults, lies, and half-truths on the prime minister and arguing among themselves how to take power, that they failed to see that Boris was, like any great boxer, simply setting them up.

His arguments to the queen are strong.

First, a group of disingenuous Tory traitors betrayed the government by voting with the non-government opposition. The U.K. system is a parliamentary government, not a system of parliamentary rule. The queen can reinforce this distinction by refusing assent upon receiving the P.M.'s advice, proving that the government elected by the people ultimately has the power.
Second, extensions have been passed before under Theresa May, but to no avail in bringing the U.K. to a better deal with the E.U. What good would another extension to January 31, 2020 bring? Even France's President Macron agrees here and has indicated he'll veto an extension anyway. Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel is also under pressure to veto any request for an extension. Any one of the 27 E.U. member-leaders can veto an extension, thereby virtually assuring a No Deal Brexit on October 31.
Finally, the current House of Commons has tacitly given its vote of confidence to Boris Johnson as prime minister by not agreeing to an election and not tabling a motion of no confidence. The Commons chose instead to focus on creating legislation that is opposed by the government, thereby giving Johnson an effective argument that the government was defied, not rejected.
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And so we'll know in the next few days if this was the plan all along. For if the prime minister is truly committed to his promise to bring the U.K. out of the E.U. on October 31, he'll advise the queen to refuse the bill. In accordance with the unwritten constitution of the U.K., the queen will agree with her prime minister's advice.

If the queen agrees, Boris Johnson will have turned the Remainers' nightmarish Halloween Day extension ploy into a historic Reformation Day, indeed.
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ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com

Who wants to debunk?
 
Gingerbeardman said:

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com

Who wants to debunk?
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It would be unusual for the queen to refuse assent. The last time that happened was by Queen Anne in 1708. Nevertheless I hope all the brexiteers who keep harping on about democracy and the will of the people are happy with Royalty being in a position to override parliament.
 
C4Cat said:
It would be unusual for the queen to refuse assent. The last time that happened was by Queen Anne in 1708. Nevertheless I hope all the brexiteers who keep harping on about democracy and the will of the people are happy with Royalty being in a position to override parliament.
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Well it is interesting times. The people want Brexit. Parliament is not the people, not anymore.
 
C4Cat said:
It would be unusual for the queen to refuse assent. The last time that happened was by Queen Anne in 1708. Nevertheless I hope all the brexiteers who keep harping on about democracy and the will of the people are happy with Royalty being in a position to override parliament.
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Given the circumstances, where the will of the people has been expressed directly in a binding referendum, which parliament is obligated to respect, absolutely.
 
Gingerbeardman said:
Given the circumstances, where the will of the people has been expressed directly in a binding referendum, which parliament is obligated to respect, absolutely.
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The referendum result was not binding as far as I know...

In other referendums there has been a legal obligation for the government to act in a certain way depending on the result, this was not included in the EU referendum.

https://www.ft.com/content/5b82031e-1056-31e1-8e0e-4e91774e27f1

The relevant legislation did not provide for the referendum result to have any formal trigger effect. The referendum is advisory rather than mandatory. The 2011 referendum on electoral reform did have an obligation on the government to legislate in the event of a “yes” vote (the vote was “no” so this did not matter). But no such provision was included in the EU referendum legislation.
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Cray said:
The referendum result was not binding as far as I know...

In other referendums there has been a legal obligation for the government to act in a certain way depending on the result, this was not included in the EU referendum.

https://www.ft.com/content/5b82031e-1056-31e1-8e0e-4e91774e27f1
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Fine, it might not be legally binding, but nevertheless the will of the people have spoken, and anyone genuinely interested in the integrity of the country, the democracy and the ability of parliament to govern would respect the wishes of the people and get Brexit over and done with. If the Queen stops idiots from ruining Brexit, she's serving the interests of the country and the democratic will of the people inhabiting it simultaneously.
 
Gingerbeardman said:
Given the circumstances, where the will of the people has been expressed directly in a binding referendum, which parliament is obligated to respect, absolutely.
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Still it makes a modern precedent - royalty has stayed out of politics in modern times, with only formalities being followed but once it becomes clear that the Queen (or King) can override parliament it open up all sorts of slippery slopes in the future, especially if William decides one day he doesn't want to remain neutral and uninvolved anymore, like his mother, and has strong political feelings he is willing to subvert parliament to push forward.
 
Parliament isn't intended to be a direct representation of the people. But's let's assume it were. The people have chosen a new parliament since the referendum therefore we can argue that the current parliament represents the current will of the people. That means the people either don't really want to leave the EU or at the very least they don't want to leave without a deal.
 
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