The Brexit Thread

[Dave]

Blaming the number of people in the country that's simply too much for the system to cope with

But you’ve just admitted it’s not “the country” but the part of the city where you are...

 

[The Voice]

But you’ve just admitted it’s not “the country” but the part of the city where you are...

Still the same country, still the same cash-strapped NHS. And London will eventually run out of space, and people will move further North (I'll definitely do it some day - I don't like living near the city all that much). There's already more people in the UK than anywhere to put them, as is. It's not a London problem, though - it's just more concentrated than it is for a town somewhere near Newcastle. This affects all of us - just currently some more than others.

And I wager that medical staff from the Commonwealth far outweigh those from the EU - those "reports" are just Remain scare tactics. After Brexit if any of the EU doctors leave they'll just be replaced by doctors from Pakistan, India, etc. Remember, the chance of anyone being kicked out is highly unlikely anyway - it'll just be harder for any more to come in.

While I'm currently considering private medical insurance, I pay for the NHS already, so may as well use it for now if I need to - it's only "free" to some. And I'm going to get the most out of the £1000 non-refundable surcharge I paid before I even walked through border control, too - then I'll make the switch to private.

 

[The_Assimilator]

All going swimmingly.

UK government tensions rise after leak of Johnson-Gove letter to May

The tensions in Theresa May’s government intensified on Sunday night ahead of this week’s vital votes on the Brexit bill, as ministers accused Boris Johnson and Michael Gove of sending an “Orwellian” set of secret demands to No 10.

As an increasingly weakened prime minister faces the possibility of parliamentary defeats on the bill, government colleagues have said they are aghast at the language used by the foreign secretary and the environment secretary in a joint private letter.

...

Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, further heightened concerns over the prospect of a hard Brexit by saying that the bloc was drawing up contingency plans for the possible collapse of Britain’s departure talks.

May is already struggling with the EU withdrawal bill, which returns to the Commons on Tuesday. Labour is expected to join Tory rebels to inflict a series of damaging defeats on the government. They will seek to give parliament a binding vote on the final divorce deal between Britain and the EU.

Sensing the government’s weakness, Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, has written to May warning she does not have the authority to deliver a transitional deal and prevent a “no deal” Brexit because of extreme Brexiters in her cabinet and on her backbenches.

 

[Dave]

Still the same country, still the same cash-strapped NHS. And London will eventually run out of space, and people will move further North (I'll definitely do it some day - I don't like living near the city all that much). There's already more people in the UK than anywhere to put them, as is. It's not a London problem, though - it's just more concentrated than it is for a town somewhere near Newcastle. This affects all of us - just currently some more than others.

And I wager that medical staff from the Commonwealth far outweigh those from the EU - those "reports" are just Remain scare tactics. After Brexit if any of the EU doctors leave they'll just be replaced by doctors from Pakistan, India, etc. Remember, the chance of anyone being kicked out is highly unlikely anyway - it'll just be harder for any more to come in.

While I'm currently considering private medical insurance, I pay for the NHS already, so may as well use it for now if I need to - it's only "free" to some. And I'm going to get the most out of the £1000 non-refundable surcharge I paid before I even walked through border control, too - then I'll make the switch to private.

All of which is completely irrelevant to the actual fact you got wrong.

The NHS in “the country” isn’t in the state you describe it in your area of a specific city is the point. It may be under pressure but in many parts of “the country” you can still get to see your GP within a week, have an ambulance arrive in under 8 minutes and get seen at A&E in under 4 hours. Many parts of “the country” manage to fall within the guidelines for cancer care as well.

You can try and blame immigrants all you like, just like UKIP wants you to, but it isn’t actually correct to say:

There's simply still too many people coming through the front door every day for it to cope. Everyone I know here who's been to a GP has the same complaint: wait ages to try and get an appointment, and when you do, your maximum time with the doctor is 10mins. You literally have no time to discuss anything.

or

Blaming the number of people in the country that's simply too much for the system to cope with

The NHS just needs the investment the Tories are pretending to give it.

I’ll reiterate my original point, you’re wrong to try and generalise local issues you might be experiencing as a way to motivate your dislike for immigration or the EU, as many of the faults are down to the government and nothing else...

 

[f2wohf]

All of which is completely irrelevant to the actual fact you got wrong.

The NHS in “the country” isn’t in the state you describe it in your area of a specific city is the point. It may be under pressure but in many parts of “the country” you can still get to see your GP within a week, have an ambulance arrive in under 8 minutes and get seen at A&E in under 4 hours. Many parts of “the country” manage to fall within the guidelines for cancer care as well.

You can try and blame immigrants all you like, just like UKIP wants you to, but it isn’t actually correct to say:



or



The NHS just needs the investment the Tories are pretending to give it.

I’ll reiterate my original point, you’re wrong to try and generalise local issues you might be experiencing as a way to motivate your dislike for immigration or the EU, as many of the faults are down to the government and nothing else...

Knowing that these EU immigrants have jobs (don’t know many people going to U.K. to retire, I certainly wouldn’t) and pay for the NHS as a British would.

It’s not exactly like Europeans are coming to the UK to cash in social benefits.

I don’t see how they impact the NHS (either way).

In this case, maybe Spain should make a special tax for the hundreds of thousands of British retiree living in the Costa Brava since they are old and foreigner and must cost more ?

 

[The_Assimilator]

Knowing that these EU immigrants have jobs (don’t know many people going to U.K. to retire, I certainly wouldn’t) and pay for the NHS as a British would.

It’s not exactly like Europeans are coming to the UK to cash in social benefits.

I don’t see how they impact the NHS (either way).

In this case, maybe Spain Spain make a special tax for the hundreds of thousands of British retiree living in the Costa Brava since they are old and foreigner and must cost more ?

Nah dude, don't you know that upstanding people from countries like Britain would never leech off the teat of other countries. After all, Brits can't be filthy parasites, only everyone else.

 

[Dave]

There's simply still too many people coming through the front door every day for it to cope.

Blaming the number of people in the country that's simply too much for the system to cope with

There's already more people in the UK than anywhere to put them.

Out of interest, what makes you as an immigrant special when compared to the other immigrants? As you say, “there’s already more people in the U.K. than anywhere to put them”?

When/if UKIP change tack and starting campaigning for only British born people to be in Britain are you still going to support them and their policies?

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Just maybe stop and think for a minute...

 

[Dave]

UK Parliament will get vote on final Brexit deal before the country leaves EU, minister David Davis tells MPs

This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41975277

 

[OrbitalDawn]

UK Parliament will get vote on final Brexit deal before the country leaves EU, minister David Davis tells MPs

This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41975277

To the point:

Brexit is reversible even after date is set, says author of article 50

The former diplomat who drafted article 50 says the UK could opt to reverse Brexit up to the moment we leave, even if a date for the country’s departure from European Union were added to the withdrawal bill, as Theresa May plans.

Lord Kerr, a former UK ambassador to the European Union, said Brexiters in May’s cabinet were suggesting Brexit was irreversible and thereby misleading the public.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Healthy and level-headed discourse.

https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/930745964561825792

The 15 Tory MPs planning to vote against enshrining the Brexit date into UK law are the cancer within their party and traitors to their country. Total disregard for the people's democratic choice.

 

[The_Assimilator]

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/brexit-referendum/british-fruit-left-rot-looming-brexit-squeezes-seasonal-labor-n820161

KENT, England — Fruit grower Tim Chambers left 150 tons of raspberries, worth just over $1 million, to rot on the bush in June. With too few laborers to pick produce on his farms, he also decided not to plant a good portion of the late-season raspberries that he usually harvests in the fall.

...

Despite warnings from many farming unions about labor shortages, many of Britain's farmers were among those voting to leave the union. Chambers is among them — and still says he has yet to regret the decision, despite his losses.

...

Chambers has made an investment worth several hundred thousand dollars in a farming joint venture in Poland — heading east for financial stability only a decade after migrant workers headed west.

“Looking two to three years into the future, where’s the confidence that there are people around to pick the fruit?” he asked. “We can’t live in a world without confidence that we will have labor to harvest.”

> votes for Brexit
> invests outside the country to make up for money lost by Brexit

Truly, a great British patriot.

 

[f2wohf]

Davis’ crystal ball seems to be fairly out of order.

A few months ago, Britain would not let EMA and EBA move:

Guess who’s moving to Amsterdam ? EMA.

Guess who’s moving to Paris ? EBA.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/europ...elocated-london-amsterdam-post-brexit-2017-11

https://twitter.com/eu2017ee/status/932677511711948800

 

[f2wohf]

Confirmation by Barnier that once Brexit is effective, UK will lose its financial passport.

He also stated that the Irish border is an issue to be resolved by the UK.

https://t.co/H5y2GJXJg5?amp=1

 

[OrbitalDawn]

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/brexit-referendum/british-fruit-left-rot-looming-brexit-squeezes-seasonal-labor-n820161



> votes for Brexit
> invests outside the country to make up for money lost by Brexit

Truly, a great British patriot.

Home Office admits it is struggling to recruit staff to register EU nationals

Home Office officials have privately admitted the department is having problems increasing its immigration staffing levels as part of its Brexit preparations and may have to recruit Polish and other eastern Europeans to help register the 3 million EU nationals in Britain.

 

[f2wohf]

Home Office admits it is struggling to recruit staff to register EU nationals

They said Brexit will create jobs, they didn't lie !

 

[f2wohf]

I am deeply disappointed by Boris, he promised they wouldn’t pay !

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...uble-brexit-cash-offer-after-meeting-itv-says

 

[Pitbull]

Home Office admits it is struggling to recruit staff to register EU nationals

Pretty easy to fill that gap. They can just open the 2 year working Holiday thing again they did away with due to the influx of Refugees years ago. Done... It's not rocket science...

 

[Dave]

Pretty easy to fill that gap. They can just open the 2 year working Holiday thing again they did away with due to the influx of Refugees years ago. Done... It's not rocket science...

Staffing the Home Office via Working Holiday visas is your idea? What brilliance :crylaugh:

 

[Pitbull]

Staffing the Home Office via Working Holiday visas is your idea? What brilliance :crylaugh:

Wasn't aimed at the home office thing, but the quote from Orbital (my mistake) the fruit farmer thing posted by The_Assimilator

Quoted him as I have seen numerous articles claiming how low wage jobs will suffer the most due to the lack of EU nationals in the UK.

 

[Dave]

Wasn't aimed at the home office thing, but the quote from Orbital (my mistake) the fruit farmer thing posted by The_Assimilator

Quoted him as I have seen numerous articles claiming how low wage jobs will suffer the most due to the lack of EU nationals in the UK.

That makes a little more sense, but I doubt there would be enough working holiday visa people to fill the farm jobs, not to mention most millennials would run a mile before spending 8 hours a day in a wet field picking vegetables