The Brexit Thread

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I don't know what you're on about with this post. Why do you find it so hard to believe that people on the Remain side love the EU as well as loving Europe? Your post is very confusing
They're using "EU" as an abbreviation for Europe, I imagine. The two are very, very different things, and are not at all interchangeable: one is a subcontinent, than other is an unelected body that controls every aspect of the lives of everyone living on that subcontinent. How can any sane person love something like that?! People love Russia, etc, but I doubt anyone about today longs for the days of the USSR.
 
They're using "EU" as an abbreviation for Europe, I imagine. The two are very, very different things, and are not at all interchangeable: one is a subcontinent, than other is an unelected body that controls every aspect of the lives of everyone living on that subcontinent. How can any sane person love something like that?! People love Russia, etc, but I doubt anyone about today longs for the days of the USSR.

I don't think they are, the ability to live and work in the EU isn't the same as saying being allowed to live or work in Europe as you'd soon find out if you went and tried to live in a non-EU European country. Europe is not the EU and the EU is not Europe, it just happens to comprise many European countries.
 
They're using "EU" as an abbreviation for Europe, I imagine. The two are very, very different things, and are not at all interchangeable: one is a subcontinent, than other is an unelected body that controls every aspect of the lives of everyone living on that subcontinent. How can any sane person love something like that?! People love Russia, etc, but I doubt anyone about today longs for the days of the USSR.

Comparing the EU to the USSR is insane.
 
They're using "EU" as an abbreviation for Europe, I imagine. The two are very, very different things, and are not at all interchangeable: one is a subcontinent, than other is an unelected body that controls every aspect of the lives of everyone living on that subcontinent. How can any sane person love something like that?! People love Russia, etc, but I doubt anyone about today longs for the days of the USSR.

People love the fact they can live and work and travel anywhere in Europe without needing permits, passports, visas and without restriction. And the other way around. When I lived in Scotland, I made friends with people from all over Europe, who were also living there, it gave such a sense of freedom to have the entire EU open to you. So I think you're wrong, many people love the EU and the freedom and opportunities that come with it.
 
People love the fact they can live and work and travel anywhere in Europe without needing permits, passports, visas and without restriction. And the other way around. When I lived in Scotland, I made friends with people from all over Europe, who were also living there, it gave such a sense of freedom to have the entire EU open to you. So I think you're wrong, many people love the EU and the freedom and opportunities that come with it.

Without forgetting having the same currency, having the same rules consumer wise which makes it easy in every country, not paying roaming when you’re in another country and countless other examples.
 
The funny thing is a buddy of mine that is always two steps ahead of everyone else rated Dublin as being the place to be...a prediction ~1 year ahead of that fateful vote.

I reckon it's going to be tight between Dublin and Frankfurt though...the ECB has got to be a big draw card for high finance.


London isn't the problem. The issue is the other 99% of England that isn't London finance is also armed with votes and they count just as much. So yeah London finance (and with it UK economy) is going to get screwed but the voter base doesn't seem to understand (or care?).

+1

London could make it tax free for the banks, they would still move. It’s a matter of financial passport, the banks operating in EU must be based in EU countries - which excludes London.
 
+1

London could make it tax free for the banks, they would still move. It’s a matter of financial passport, the banks operating in EU must be based in EU countries - which excludes London.

I thought being in the single market was the reason for the passport? That is possible without being in the EU (and I suspect what the end fudge to save the UK economy will involve).
 
I thought being in the single market was the reason for the passport? That is possible without being in the EU (and I suspect what the end fudge to save the UK economy will involve).

And so far, it seems UK won't be in the single market.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2568231/eu-single-market-brexit-theresa-may/

The banks won't wait 2019 to make their decisions and have to rush at this point. They rather plan in advance to move to places where they are sure they can operate from.

If they remain in London and London is in the single market, they will have to comply with EU and UK rules at the same time, imagine the nightmare.

All the financial industry and the industry captains warned of it before the Brexit but nobody listened to them.

Next in line are industries exporting massively to EU, they will most likely stop investing in UK (at least until 2019) and increase their EU manufacturing capacity (that's what I would do if I was them).
 
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And so far, it seems UK won't be in the single market.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2568231/eu-single-market-brexit-theresa-may/

The banks won't wait 2019 to make their decisions and have to rush at this point. They rather plan in advance to move to places where they are sure they can operate from.

If they remain in London and London is in the single market, they will have to comply with EU and UK rules at the same time, imagine the nightmare.

All the financial industry and the industry captains warned of it before the Brexit but nobody listened to them.

Next in line are industries exporting massively to EU, they will most likely stop investing in UK (at least until 2019) and increase their EU manufacturing capacity (that's what I would do if I was them).

And as Chris the Brit so perfectly pointed out, negotiations for a trade deal take many, many years. I wonder what his thoughts are with regards to the UK being on WTO tariffs with the EU all of a sudden?
 
than other is an unelected body that controls every aspect of the lives of everyone living on that subcontinent.

What an utter load of twaddle. Do you Brexiteers understand why nobody takes you seriously? Because you're constantly saying stupid s**t like this that has literally no basis in reality.

And as Chris the Brit so perfectly pointed out, negotiations for a trade deal take many, many years. I wonder what his thoughts are with regards to the UK being on WTO tariffs with the EU all of a sudden?

Don't worry bro. Boris Johnson, UK's version of Donald Trump, will somehow make everything work out. He has no idea how (something he seems to share with most Brexiteers) but he'll make it work. Promise.
 
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Depressing reading, and showing just how thick the right wing of the Tories/UKIP and their even more dumb supporters are...

As a British EU negotiator, I can tell you that Brexit is going to be far worse than anyone could have guessed
The Government keeps saying it ‘didn’t realise’ the problems, but they had the experts at Whitehall – they just refused to listen to them. Now we’re facing a breakdown in airline safety, medicine, animal welfare, security, international aid and so much more

For anyone following Brexit developments, the last week should have shown that the level of complexity involved in Brexit is unprecedented. Ministers however seem to have inserted their heads firmly into the sand, hoping tricky problems will just go away.

Who knew a fortnight ago that leaving the apparently obscure Euratom Treaty would jeopardise not only the UK nuclear industry, but also the supply of medical isotopes for cancer treatment?

Did anybody realise that the work needed to establish a new customs IT system was unlikely to be done in time, and what that would mean?

Was everyone already aware that UK airlines like easyJet would need to set up in the EU27 and Ryanair might move its planes to EU27 countries due to the UK leaving the Open Skies Agreement?

Well, some people knew, but they’re just experts, so have been largely ignored.

I was walking across a Brussels park a couple of days after the Article 50 bill was published when I spotted a friend who’s an energy sector expert. He hailed me with an anguished: “Steve, Euratom, why would they do that!? It’s just so unnecessary. A total own goal.”

Being a sector expert, he knows that the nuclear industry in the UK relies massively on Euratom, and that it may take years and lots of money to get back to the point we’re at now. All that matters to the Government, apparently, is that Euratom is within the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, so it has to go.

In international development, the area I used to work in, things are equally grim. UK NGOs such as Oxfam will not be eligible for EU grants post-Brexit. With only a few small exceptions, only NGOs from EU countries, and the partner countries themselves, can implement EU aid programmes.

I know this well, as I was the UK negotiator for the EU regulation on this. As Tamsyn Barton, my old boss in the Department for International Development, and now chief executive of Bond, the UK NGO network, points out, this will hit large and small NGOs, as well as the many UK companies that currently implement EU aid. So UK NGOs may well struggle, UK companies will be worse off, and developing countries will have access to a smaller pool of expertise. Who knew?

There are literally hundreds of such issues where the effects of Brexit will be detrimental to the UK. All of these have to be resolved in Brexit negotiations, or mitigated by the UK Government. I worked on and in the EU for 12 years, but issues that had never even occurred to me come up all the time. For example, while we are becoming aware of the impact of leaving the Open Skies Agreement on the aviation market, few have spotted Brexit’s impact on aviation safety.

The UK does not have its own capacity to do things like certify maintenance facilities if it leaves the European Aviation Safety Agency. Yes, you heard that right. The UK won’t be able to certify the people that fix the planes. As with so many of these issues, the UK will either have to negotiate to remain in the agency (which is within the dreaded European Court of Justice’s jurisdiction), or establish its own capacity to replace what it does from a standing start in only 20 months.

How will the UK remain in the EU’s internal energy market post-Brexit as it looks to import more energy from the EU, and what are the implications if it doesn’t? What about the Emissions Trading System? Patents and intellectual property rights? Food standards? Medicine approvals? Europol? The list goes on and on.

What is most frustrating, and deeply worrying, about these continuous “we didn’t realise that” moments is that the Government has plenty of excellent sector-specific experts in Whitehall, and the United Kingdom Representation to the European Union (UKRep), which represents the UK in negotiations that take place in the EU. I simply don’t believe that they are not doing their job and reporting these issues to ministers and their offices.

Perhaps those closest to ministers are controlling the supply of information to them, and the messages are not getting through, but reporting back the realities in Brussels to London is a core task of UKRep, and one that’s always taken very seriously. When Sir Ivan Rogers talked about “speaking truth to power”, he was just talking about what every one of the desk officers and counsellors at UKRep do every day.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...heresa-may-worse-anyone-guessed-a7858586.html
 
When it goes wrong I bet May will throw Bojo and Davis to the wolves...

I wouldn’t mind Johnson being thrown to the wolves, and then the lions, and then buried in fresh concrete (just to make sure he never comes back).
 
I guess we won't really know the full extent of the good or the bad until a number of years after we've left. It's not as cut and dry as the US election results - they're not leaving a union, they've just changed hands. After a few years, they can change to someone else if Trump doesn't do well - we'll always be out of the EU, though.

We've integrated so much of every part of our daily lives into the EU it's a bit scary to be honest. It was always going to be a messy divorce, though. And it's always the kids who suffer, right?
 
I wouldn’t mind Johnson being thrown to the wolves, and then the lions, and then buried in fresh concrete (just to make sure he never comes back).

Considering most brexiteers are knuckling dragging xenophobes they should insist Johnson be sent to Turkey where his paternal family come from if Brexit goes ahead.

Wasn’t one of Leave’s big scare stories about all the Turks coming to the UK? :whistle:
 
I guess we won't really know the full extent of the good or the bad until a number of years after we've left. It's not as cut and dry as the US election results - they're not leaving a union, they've just changed hands. After a few years, they can change to someone else if Trump doesn't do well - we'll always be out of the EU, though.

We've integrated so much of every part of our daily lives into the EU it's a bit scary to be honest. It was always going to be a messy divorce, though. And it's always the kids who suffer, right?

Have you read post 972, it’s a bit more of a problem than the integration of EU Regulations into UK law.
 
Considering most brexiteers are knuckling dragging xenophobes they should insist Johnson be sent to Turkey where his paternal family come from if Brexit goes ahead.

Wasn’t one of Leave’s big scare stories about all the Turks coming to the UK? :whistle:
oh dear these insults.
 
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