The Brexit Thread

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Brexit secretary skips new round of EU talks for drinks at think tank

British diplomats have confirmed that Raab will not be attending the first round of negotiations on Monday, instead choosing to speak at a summer drinks event organised by the right-wing free market think tank FREER.

The early discussions instead will be left to the civil servants.

His absence from the negotiating table mirrors the approach of his predecessor David Davis, who is said to have spent just four hours in total meeting with key EU players during his time at the Department for Exiting the European Union.

Also absent from the EU will be the new foreign secretary Jeremy Hunt and his deputies, who were expected to attend the latest meeting of the foreign affairs council with other member states.
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Taking a leaf out of Farage's book.
 
scud said:
I just find it weird that a country can vote without fully understanding the implications.
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That definitely describes every UK election. Almost nobody reads the party manifestos before voting. Then they throw a fit when the party they voted for does exactly as they said they were going to do if they won. Then you have people who are simply loyal to a particular party. Not to imply this is unique to the UK. It's true everywhere.

It isn't however simply because people are too lazy to bother, but because it is a huge amount of information to read and understand. The same is true for the EU situation. The EU is a fairly complex structure that was incessantly misrepresented by those opposed to EU membership. That's not say it does not have serious flaws, but once the UK leaves they'll have no influence over reforms while still being subject to many of its rules if they want to continue trading.

scud said:
But what if the new plan is explained better and actually makes good sense
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The new plan is effectively the worst of both worlds.

NarrowBandFtw said:
Anyone, and I do mean ANYONE, who cannot stay in business without a government subsidy of any kind should go and get fekked.
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So no more public transport either then.

NarrowBandFtw said:
good old central planning is always better than the free market
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No, but neither is the reverse true.
 
Tories tearing themselves apart. General election and Labour landslide almost inevitable.
 
Lie, cheat and steal: Vote Leave fined and reported to police by Electoral Commission

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...rted-to-police-by-electoral-commission-brexit

Vote Leave has been fined £61,000 and reported to the police by the Electoral Commission, after the watchdog found “significant evidence” of coordination with another campaign group, BeLeave.

The watchdog said it had imposed punitive fines on Vote Leave because it said the group had refused to co-operate fully with its investigation and declined to be interviewed. Its former chief executive, Matthew Elliott, had previously alleged it was the Electoral Commission that had refused to cooperate.

The commission’s long-awaited report said it had found evidence BeLeave spent more than £675,000 with data firm Aggregate IQ coordinated with Vote Leave, which should have been declared by the Brexit campaign group.

Vote Leave, which was the official designated campaign for Britain leaving the EU during the referendum fronted by Boris Johnson and Michael Gove, exceeded its legal spending limit of £7m by almost £500,000, the watchdog found.

Darren Grimes, the founder of BeLeave, and the Vote Leave official David Halsall have been reported to the police. Vote Leave has been fined £61,000 and Grimes £20,000.
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These fines are of course drops in a bucket, compared to what Putin will reap from a divided Europe.
 
JayM said:
Tories tearing themselves apart. General election and Labour landslide almost inevitable.
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That may be exactly what's needed to finally get liberated. A few years of Labour dirigisme will focus the attention of freedom-loving Brits, with a hard Brexit to follow.
 
Arthur said:
That may be exactly what's needed to finally get liberated. A few years of Labour dirigisme will focus the attention of freedom-loving Brits, with a hard Brexit to follow.
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But Corbyn wants a hard Brexit too, so that'll probably happen right away. And Labour will be able to blame the Tories for the collapse of the economy and their socialist policies will help them keep the voters in line for a long time. Poetic justice.
 
JayM said:
But Corbyn wants a hard Brexit too, so that'll probably happen right away. And Labour will be able to blame the Tories for the collapse of the economy and their socialist policies will help them keep the voters in line for a long time. Poetic justice.
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Corbyn supports a hard Brexit like I support a Corbyn government - for agent provocateur purposes. He's of course an adamant Remainer and wants the UK part of the Big Socialist Euroblob. I am an ardent Brexiteer, and want the UK free and independent. We both think that giving the other side a go will push people our way.
 
Arthur said:
Just because he says he wants a hard Brexit doesn't mean it's his final goal. After all, he hums the Internationale while showering. ;)
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If he hums the Internationale, he is against the EU then.

Not one communist party in Europe is for the EU, they find it too liberal and subservient to the finance industry and being nefarious to the workers' rights.
 
f2wohf said:
If he hums the Internationale, he is against the EU then.

Not one communist party in Europe is for the EU, they find it too liberal and subservient to the finance industry and being nefarious to the workers' rights.
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Hehe. You guys need to swot up on How to Start a Revolution. Surely one doesn't need to spell it out. You seem to forget that back in 2015 he was a Remainer, while still in opposition and seeking the Labour leadership. Later he switched for tactical populist purposes. But in his ideological heart he wants Everyone to be Part of One Big Socialist State.
 
Arthur said:
Corbyn supports a hard Brexit like I support a Corbyn government - for agent provocateur purposes. He's of course an adamant Remainer and wants the UK part of the Big Socialist Euroblob.
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Another one who doesn't really know what's happening..

Jeremy Corbyn voted for Britain to leave the European Economic Community (EEC) in the 1975 European referendum.
Jeremy Corbyn opposed the creation of the European Union (EU) under the Maastricht Treaty – speaking and voting against it in Parliament in 1993. During the 2016 referendum campaign, Left Leave highlighted repeated speeches he made in Parliament opposing Europe during 1993.
Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Lisbon Treaty on more than one occasion in Parliament in 2008.
In 2010, Jeremy Corbyn voted against the creation of the European Union’s diplomatic service.
Jeremy Corbyn voted for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU in 2011 (breaking the Labour whip to do so).
In 2011 Jeremy Corbyn also opposed the creation of the EU’s European Stability Mechanism, which helps members of the Euro in financial difficulties. (This vote is a good example of how Corbyn votes with hardcore Euro-sceptics. Only 26 other MPs joined him in voting against, and in their number are the likes of right-wing Euro-sceptics such as Peter Bone, Douglas Carswell, Bill Cash, Ian Paisley Junior and John Redwood.)
Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain’s participation in the EU’s Banking Authority in 2012.
In 2016 his long-time left-wing ally Tariq Ali said that he was sure that if Corbyn was not Labour leader he would be campaigning for Britain to leave the EU, whilst his brother Piers Corbyn also said that Jeremy Corbyn was privately opposed to Britain’s membership of the European Union.
Jeremy Corbyn went on holiday during the 2016 referendum campaign and his office staff consistently undermined the Remain campaign. He refused to attend a key Remain campaign launch and also attacked government ministers for publicising the Remain case, saying they should also have promoted arguments in favour of Leave vote. The Director of the Remain campaign, himself a Labour member and candidate, said, “Rather than making a clear and passionate Labour case for EU membership, Corbyn took a week’s holiday in the middle of the campaign and removed pro-EU lines from his speeches”. During the referendum campaign, Leave.EU highlighted Corbyn’s attacks on Europe made in 1996.
The day after the European referendum in 2016, Jeremy Corbyn called for the immediate invocation of Article 50 – the two-year notice to leave the EU – much quicker than even Theresa May wanted.
In December 2016, Jeremy Corbyn voted in Parliament in favour of the UK leaving the EU and for the process to start no later than 31 March 2017.
Jeremy Corbyn three times voted in February 2017 in favour of the Prime Minister starting the process of leaving the European Union.
During the 2017 general election, the independent Channel 4 Factcheck service found very little difference between Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May over Europe.
In the summer of 2017, Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain remaining in the Single Market. He even sacked from his team Labour MPs who voted in favour of membership of the Single Market.
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https://www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/
 
Dave said:
Another one who doesn't really know what's happening..

https://www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/
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Really, hey?

I'm well aware of Corbyn's public position. What I think you're missing is my rather more subtle point that ideologically Corbyn is a centralist. He is opposed to the current form of the EU because in his view it's too capitalist. He's all for bringing Britain into a closer legal union with the EU provided the EU becomes more socialist. When you look a little deeper, that's a very different position to the arguments of the Brexiteers. In other words, his current public position is simply a tactical one, not one opposed to greater union in principle. He is a breast-beating ideologue, and is quite prepared to take a position now if it'll serve his greater aim of moving the UK and all of Europe into a closer socialist union. Get it?
 
Arthur said:
Really, hey?

I'm well aware of Corbyn's public position. What I think you're missing is my rather more subtle point that ideologically Corbyn is a centralist. He is opposed to the current form of the EU because in his view it's too capitalist. He's all for bringing Britain into a closer legal union with the EU provided the EU becomes more socialist. When you look a little deeper, that's a very different position to the arguments of the Brexiteers. In other words, his current public position is simply a tactical one, not one opposed to greater union in principle. He is a breast-beating ideologue, and is quite prepared to take a position now if it'll serve his greater aim of moving the UK and all of Europe into a closer socialist union. Get it?
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Links to support your opinion?
 
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