The Brexit Thread

[Dave]

How do you equate normal MP to his definition or "President"? The UK's "President" is the PM. So we're talking about the PM here, nothing more nothing less.

Sigh...

The PM is not an elected position (by the electorate), however the PM is an elected MP. So you can’t equate the PM to the election of a President.

Siiiiggggh...

 

[Pitbull]

The PM is not an elected position (by the electorate), however the PM is an elected MP. So you can’t equate the PM to the election of a President.

Siiiiggggh...

Geesus...

I don't even know why I bother arguing with you... Took about 10 pages just to realize you had no idea what you're talking about when it came to the Brexit vote. Not doing that again... /cheers

 

[Dave]

and which bit was "illegal"? overstating numbers to a hopelessly gullible electorate is questionable, but certainly not illegal, and BOTH sides did that ...

The official Brexit campaign has been fined £61,000 and referred to police for breaking electoral law.

The conclusions come in a long-awaited watchdog report into Vote Leave - whose prominent backers included Tories Boris Johnson and Michael Gove.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-vote-leave-brexit-campaign-12932946

As well as:

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-complaint-that-leave-campaigns-misled-voters

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...igns-misled-eu-referendum-votes-a3389361.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...int-that-leave-campaigns-misled-eu-referendu/

and BOTH sides did that ...

Links to where any of the Remain groups have been fined by the Electoral Commision or referred to the police/CPS for breaking electoral law?

prime minister, president, same shyte, different a-hole

Showing off your general ignorance there...

 

[Dave]

Geesus...

I don't even know why I bother arguing with you... Took about 10 pages just to realize you had no idea what you're talking about when it came to the Brexit vote. Not doing that again... /cheers

There’s a few clueless people in this thread, you’re one of them. Maybe even one of the ringleaders...

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Links to where any of the Remain groups have been fined by the Electoral Commision or referred to the police/CPS for breaking electoral law?

You've been talking about the spending thing all this time? :crylaugh: puhlease, get back to us when there's a real concern, not just something worthy of a pitifully small fine, fun fact, your 1975 referendum's winning side did much worse on the spending front ...

Showing off your general ignorance there...

Could be worse, I could be calling Corbyn a leaver when the public record has him quoted directly, multiple times, as a bremoaner ...

 

[Dave]

You've been talking about the spending thing all this time? :crylaugh: puhlease, get back to us when there's a real concern, not just something worthy of a pitifully small fine, fun fact, your 1975 referendum's winning side did much worse on the spending front ...

They’ve already had the maximum £61k fine, and are now also looking like getting a court conviction and punishment. Hardly just “a pitifully small fine”. The CPS is also investigating other offences, maybe read the links?

Could be worse, I could be calling Corbyn a leaver when the public record has him quoted directly, multiple times, as a bremoaner ...

Corbyn has been a fake remainer (or at least, a pretend one, for the referendum campaign), and longtime EU-sceptic

He is, in short, a life-long Eurosceptic:

Jeremy Corbyn voted for Britain to leave the European Economic Community (EEC) in the 1975 European referendum.
Jeremy Corbyn opposed the creation of the European Union (EU) under the Maastricht Treaty – speaking and voting against it in Parliament in 1993. During the 2016 referendum campaign, Left Leave highlighted repeated speeches he made in Parliament opposing Europe during 1993.
Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Lisbon Treaty on more than one occasion in Parliament in 2008.
In 2010, Jeremy Corbyn voted against the creation of the European Union’s diplomatic service.
Jeremy Corbyn voted for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU in 2011 (breaking the Labour whip to do so).
In 2011 Jeremy Corbyn also opposed the creation of the EU’s European Stability Mechanism, which helps members of the Euro in financial difficulties. (This vote is a good example of how Corbyn votes with hardcore Euro-sceptics. Only 26 other MPs joined him in voting against, and in their number are the likes of right-wing Euro-sceptics such as Peter Bone, Douglas Carswell, Bill Cash, Ian Paisley Junior and John Redwood.)
Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain’s participation in the EU’s Banking Authority in 2012.
In 2016 his long-time left-wing ally Tariq Ali said that he was sure that if Corbyn was not Labour leader he would be campaigning for Britain to leave the EU, whilst his brother Piers Corbyn also said that Jeremy Corbyn was privately opposed to Britain’s membership of the European Union.
Jeremy Corbyn went on holiday during the 2016 referendum campaign and his office staff consistently undermined the Remain campaign. He refused to attend a key Remain campaign launch and also attacked government ministers for publicising the Remain case, saying they should also have promoted arguments in favour of Leave vote. The Director of the Remain campaign, himself a Labour member and candidate, said, “Rather than making a clear and passionate Labour case for EU membership, Corbyn took a week’s holiday in the middle of the campaign and removed pro-EU lines from his speeches”. During the referendum campaign, Leave.EU highlighted Corbyn’s attacks on Europe made in 1996.
The day after the European referendum in 2016, Jeremy Corbyn called for the immediate invocation of Article 50 – the two-year notice to leave the EU – much quicker than even Theresa May wanted.
In December 2016, Jeremy Corbyn voted in Parliament in favour of the UK leaving the EU and for the process to start no later than 31 March 2017.
Jeremy Corbyn three times voted in February 2017 in favour of the Prime Minister starting the process of leaving the European Union.
During the 2017 general election, the independent Channel 4 Factcheck service found very little difference between Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May over Europe.
In the summer of 2017, Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain remaining in the Single Market. He even sacked from his team Labour MPs who voted in favour of membership of the Single Market.

As the Labour Leave group wrote in April 2016:

Corbyn is a well known Eurosceptic, who voted against membership in 1975, voted against the Maastricht Treaty in 1993, and voted against the Lisbon Treaty in 2009.

Given his views he has made a number of strongly anti-EU comments over the years.

https://www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

Corbyn has been a fake remainer (or at least, a pretend one, for the referendum campaign), and longtime EU-sceptic

Longtime euro skeptic yes, but genuine bremoaner. He knew full well the fastest route to the full blown socialist utopia he's after was within the EU, they're further down the socialist path than a free UK would be.

 

[Dave]

Longtime euro skeptic yes, but genuine bremoaner. He knew full well the fastest route to the full blown socialist utopia he's after was within the EU, they're further down the socialist path than a free UK would be.

Actually it’s just the opposite, he thinks the EU is a threat to his socialist utopia.Corbyn’s idea of socialism is more 1970’s version with nationalisation, state subsidies and state enterprises, not 21st century socialism like the Scandinavian countries.

He is no remainer, forget that idea, it’s a guise he’s worn to keep support from the young.

This is his idea of socialism (as spoken by his mentor, Tony Benn):

Strategy B which is the real Labour policy of saving jobs, a vigorous micro-investment programme, import control, control of the banks and insurance companies, control of export, of capital, higher taxation of the rich, and Britain leaving the Common Market“.

https://musealoudblog.wordpress.com/2017/06/27/why-is-corbyn-pro-brexit/

 

[Pitbull]

There’s a few clueless people in this thread, you’re one of them. Maybe even one of the ringleaders...

Oooo the irony :crylaugh:

 

[Dave]

Oooo the irony :crylaugh:

I bet you think irony is what you use to take the creases out of your shirts...

 

[Pitbull]

I bet you think irony is what you use to take the creases out of your shirts...

People can read you know

 

[Dave]

People can read you know

 

[noxibox]

Just like in SA they don't vote for people they vote for parties.

For MEPs that's the case. General elections are a vote for a local candidate. People may choose their preferred candidate along party lines, but they still choose a specific candidate not a party. Whichever candidate wins in each constituency goes to parliament. That's why the make-up of parliament doesn't resemble the popular vote and how the two main parties keep getting control of the government even when they only get 35% of the vote.

Yes, you can't. You voted now take action and after action has been taken you can vote again. You can't vote, not take action and vote again because you don't like the outcome of the first vote. It's stupid and moronic.

They're under no obligation to follow through in this case, so the only reason they'd do another referendum now is to reassure themselves they'd not be sabotaging themselves in a future general election by ignoring the outcome of the last referendum. Otherwise they're well within their rights to look at the results of the referendum, state they recognise there was a majority decision to leave the EU, but that they're exercising their discretionary power as elected representatives and choosing not to go ahead.

If that trend holds China's GDP surpasses the EU's total GDP in the next two or three years ... the same China that does not belong to any club that makes their laws for them ...

China is like a lot of smaller countries joined together. However even if they weren't Europe's population is dwarfed by that of China, as is its land area. And regardless of their relative GDPs China's GDP per capita is way behind Europe.

It would appear you don't quite get this whole "self-determination" thing. There's no "independence" when you have to get the permission of big brother at every step of the way.

That's what Ireland and Scotland have been saying all this time. So why not break it down even smaller, so everyone can have self-determination instead of bowing to London. Break the US up into independent states too. No more moaning about the Federal government.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

That's what Ireland and Scotland have been saying all this time. So why not break it down even smaller, so everyone can have self-determination instead of bowing to London. Break the US up into independent states too. No more moaning about the Federal government.

Absolutely, US states were founded on principles of decentralization in the first place, they should all have the right to secede. Practically speaking, Ireland should just have the whole damn island, have they ever had a proper independence referendum? Scotland has, recently, they chose to stay, so that's their own fault and choice.

 

[Dave]

Absolutely, US states were founded on principles of decentralization in the first place, they should all have the right to secede. Practically speaking, Ireland should just have the whole damn island, have they ever had a proper independence referendum? Scotland has, recently, they chose to stay, so that's their own fault and choice.

You’ve shown your ignorance on the Northern Irish question there, maybe go and read up on Irish independence and “the troubles” that ensued thereafter. It’s too long and complicated to condense into a forum post.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

You’ve shown your ignorance on the Northern Irish question there, maybe go and read up on Irish independence and “the troubles” that ensued thereafter. It’s too long and complicated to condense into a forum post.

Erm, I outright ADMITTED ignorance, with intent. You seem to be loving this new "showing your ignorance" bs these days though, who am I to stop you

 

[Dave]

Erm, I outright ADMITTED ignorance, with intent. You seem to be loving this new "showing your ignorance" bs these days though, who am I to stop you

It’s the correct word in the sentence isn’t it? What would you prefer, me to use a totally incorrect word?

“Narrowband, you’ve shown your starlight of the issue”. Would that be better?

I’d suggest you add the Orange Order to the list of words to google, though Northern Irish Troubles should give you plenty of information to read.

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

It’s the correct word in the sentence isn’t it? What would you prefer, me to use a totally incorrect word?

“Narrowband, you’ve shown your starlight of the issue”. Would that be better?

I’d suggest you add the Orange Order to the list of words to google, though Northern Irish Troubles should give you plenty of information to read.

Sure it's grammatically correct, I'm assuming it comes with the same tone as the other 2 or 3 recent posts where you used the word though, either way, no big deal.

But ok fine, guess that's a gap in my knowledge of history, I only know as much as The Devil's Own taught me ...

 

[NarrowBandFtw]

I’d suggest you add the Orange Order to the list of words to google, though Northern Irish Troubles should give you plenty of information to read.

and you said it doesn't fit in a post, sure it does:

Long ago England invaded and colonized Northern Ireland and filled it with Protestants who loved English rule, reunification with the Republic has been a hot topic ever since, but there's only ever been one vote on the topic back in 1973.

Yet another positive outcome from brexit is an apparent surge in support for reunification of Ireland:

Over a quarter of people in the six counties say they have changed their mind since the Brexit vote and now support a united Ireland – bringing polling for a referendum to 45 per cent staying in the UK and 42 per cent leaving it, with 13 per cent undecided.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-united-ireland-referendum-northern-border-uk-yougov-poll-a8389086.html

 

[Dave]

and you said it doesn't fit in a post, sure it does:

Long ago England invaded and colonized Northern Ireland and filled it with Protestants who loved English rule, reunification with the Republic has been a hot topic ever since, but there's only ever been one vote on the topic back in 1973.

Yet another positive outcome from brexit is an apparent surge in support for reunification of Ireland:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-united-ireland-referendum-northern-border-uk-yougov-poll-a8389086.html

Ireland won’t support Northern Ireland reunification without an overwhelming vote to do so, you know the British army was posted to Northern Ireland for decades to stop the 2 sides killing each other? As in car bombs, mortars and paramilitary groups with automatic weapons going at each other...

You underestimate the sectarian divide in the north.