Dave
Honorary Master
Don’t expect too much sense from Frequent visitor, he’s one of those who’s views come over as if he aspires to still be living in the days of empire, so is an easy target for all the myths peddled by the tabloids.
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Question of the Day: What is the ultimate French toast topping?
The Brexit Thread
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Don’t expect too much sense from Frequent visitor, he’s one of those who’s views come over as if he aspires to still be living in the days of empire, so is an easy target for all the myths peddled by the tabloids.
Vox Populi Vox Dei
High Tory
Let's go JRM 
About bloody time - he's usually far too polite.
About bloody time - he's usually far too polite.
Pitbull
Verboten
About time they get a real conservative to run with Brexit.Let's go JRM
About bloody time - he's usually far too polite.
Edit: Doubt it will pass though...
Vox Populi Vox Dei
High Tory
Yup - I also agree it is unlikely to pass. Too many suck-ups, has-beens and fake conservatives et al. involved. But, I can't see her staying if her EU deal is voted down in the House of Commons.
People were literally laughing at her about an hour ago in the House of Commons when she gave a statement on the deal.
Frequent visitor
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The 'problem' seems to be the inspection of the kidney, and removal of the fat. I imagine in the slaughterhouse (ever been in one? They can be sobering!) it is all for speed, so carefully removing the fat around the kidney and cleaning it would be too much bother for a minority interest.
I happen to prefer pigs kidney to beef and lambs kidney, but it is rare to find it in supermarkets. A couple of years ago I went into PnP in the Menlyn and asked the butcher for some pigs kidney. He was a bit surprised and questioned the whitey what it was all about. I told him it was for devilled kidney on toast, and he was intrigued. He got me some, leaving the impression that it would normally be discarded - i.e it would probably go to a pie manufacturer!- and he and his assistant were shaking their heads at this ancient eccentric foreign whitey eating such a thing. He charged me peanuts.
The EU reference you give shows you why CAP, particularly for frozen meat is so poorly enforced. A container full of frozen meat can be worth more in CAP refund as a similar container of whiskey is in UK duty. Telling boned and cut fore quarters from hinds after freezing is for a specialist!!
I once visited a medium abattoir for VAT purposes, and from cash records became suspicious of the CAP position. I said nothing and reported back. Our investigators poured in with suitable experts on hand, and proved a multi million fraud on CAP levy. The same sort of thing came with Kerry Gold butter, on sale at a small grocer in England, when KG and other butters were required to be sold in the UK in 250 gm packages, whereas in Ireland they were still using 1/2 lbs packaging. That too turned out to be a CAP border fraud. That was on the border that the brexiteers and remainers maintain does not exist. Oh yes it damned well does!!! I have been to a well known border farm watching the goings on from a safe distance with glasses, when a roughie with an NI accent drove up to make it clear that we should move on - or else. I was for arresting him, but my NI colleagues prevailed.
Again on the border I have seen a hose from a ROI petrol station left in the hedge at the border, so that NI motorists could fill up at a lower cost without crossing the border. It was withdrawn as we drove up!
Dave
Honorary Master
Let's go JRM
About bloody time - he's usually far too polite.
Typical Chris twisting, he didn’t say it as stated, read the follow on tweets.
Maybe you should be more bothered about politics in your home country?
I’m sure there must be something happening in Australian politics...
Frequent visitor
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I suspect Ancalagon (post 3092) meant that you cannot prevent an EU citizen from entering the UK, as opposed to citizens of all countries.
The SA requirement for a visa is down to Gigaba. I had found courier mail going to Nigeria with brand new unstamped and uncompleted SA passports in them way back in 2001. I also found used (presumably stolen ones) passports going there. Later in the UK we were finding drug smuggling people from for example Pakistan with nice new SA passports. We told the SA people, but they did nothing effective, and we imposed a visa requirement on all SA visitors around 2009. Personally I would have restricted the visa requirement to those causing the problem, but we are totally stressed in the UK about appearing to be discriminatory. So all suffer for the few.
NarrowBandFtw
Honorary Master
They have problems, what they don't have is someone else writing their laws for them on the topic, they can do whatever they like with their legislation to solve the problem.So the USA has no problems with citizens from other countries working illegally
So the USA has no problems with citizens from other countries working illegally
They have the legal right to enforce their borders - it is just that doing so is difficult.
Frequent visitor
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What do you mean by a hard border? The border exists, and has been the scene of enforcement action after the EU acession. We even had in the late '90s a customs trailer fitted out as an office : I used it in the late 90s. Lorry traffic with goods generally went unchallenged to say Belfast, where paperwork was lodged. Assuming no duties were due we still had need of trade statistics. BUT, the lorries could be stopped if we wished to check the cargo agreed with the paperwork.
The Irish chose independence back in the early 1900s. They got a good deal with the Common Passport Area, and can go to the UK to work if they wish. They need no passport to do so. No work permit. Nothing. For them to bang on about the UK betraying them is a bit of a cheek: they chose independence. My own grandfather was one of them: he was a Sinn Feiner, born and living in the UK of Irish parents. He resigned from Sinn Fein due to his disgust with the troubles in the 1920s. I see no reason for the Irish to claim any special privileges this far down the line. The EU are just jumping on the band wagon for their own ends.
You do talk twaddle sometimes Dave. I was one of the young generation with the vote at 21 (in 1961) who made it clear to McMillan that we were not going to be conscripted to fight for the Empire. We were fully in support of his Cape Town delivered 'winds of change' speech. We had seen the Suez fiasco, and wanted no more of it. I had friends a little older than me who had a bad time in Borneo, Aden, and other benighted places. And for what? To save the face of the ruling classes? To preserve the interests of UK capitalists? No sir, not for us. I very much wanted to fly in the RAF, but withdrew my application as it clearly was not the romantic ideal I had been brought up with. The RAF was deployed all over the place in those days: it was all about supporting the upper classes and risking your life for them. Going up to confront the USSR was one thing: shooting tribesmen in the back was another. Even being a fighter pilot in the main possible arenas was a matter of sneaking up behind them and killing them before they knew what was going on. Very chivalrous eh?
By the way, I do not read the tabloids, of which the famous Times is one. That I do not read because of the connection with Murdoch. You are so far out of date with your clumsy 'invective' that the paucity of broadsheet newspapers seems to have passed you by. These days the term for rubbish papers is 'red tops'.
Dave
Honorary Master
https://tabloids.askdefine.com/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabloid_journalism
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabloid_journalism#Red_tops
You come over as a prime example of a Daily Mail reader.
Dave
Honorary Master
As of today, Corbyn is the bookies' favourite for next PM.
Says a lot when the electorate would rather have comrade Corbyn than any of the useless Tories...
Though I suppose if the choice is between him and Rees-Mugg or Bojo it’s pretty understandable,
If they lose this no confidence vote, the deal still has a chance.
They're not necessarily too far along. There is no specific rule regarding changing your mind, and most of the legal opinions I've seen basically say that a state can effectively rescind their withdrawal notice any time before they have actually with drawn. Neither would the EU necessarily have them over a barrel. Ultimately the matter might go to court and if the court ruled in favour the UK's being allowed to change their mind there would really be nothing the EU could do to them. And I don't see how the public being hoodwinked shouldn't be factored in.
I think there is reason to suspect there wouldn't remain a majority, and that is the primary reason the leave side is fundamentally opposed to asking the public. I'm also sure that if the leave side had lost previous referendum they'd continue agitating for another referendum.
Not only that, but it has significant influence over the directives the EU issues.
If only they didn't have to issue one to Farage.
Labour was already in disarray, but this whole Brexit debacle appears to have thrown the Conservatives into even greater disarray.
Dave
Honorary Master
Dave
Honorary Master
They’re both in total disarray, the majority of the parliamentary Labour Party still can’t stand Corbyn, but at least Labour isn’t currently trying to completely destroy the Union or the economy.
I think an early argument for another referendum, suggesting that the voter turnout wasn't everyone and thus not a valid representation, was silly and would frankly make every general election invalid. Never mind the ridiculous fact that the ruling party, whichever of the two it is, is doing well if they get 40% of the votes in a general election and yet controls more than 50% of the seats.
However now, looking at what has really transpired and the facts that have come out over the two years since the vote, I think a referendum would, and should, be asking a different question.
That's true, but I'd say they have enough control. I mean the control should be serving some practical purpose not some petty nationalism
I'd say an employer can prefer to hire a UK citizen. After all the process is reasonably opaque and thus if a company is getting sufficient applications from UK citizens they should not have any trouble keeping out people from the continent. However from what I saw immigrants were presented by the leave side as some sort of existential threat, and in reality it wasn't about citizens of the EU coming in, but the alleged threat of membership of the EU resulting in a deluge of brown people.
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