The Brexit Thread

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Just thinking about it , although it won’t fly, Mays deal kinda represents the vote split 49/51.

Remainers / leavers would both get what they voted for.
In a roundabout way
 
Unhappy438 said:
Russia lol and they have been involved in far more wars.
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You must be new to this whole facts thing. In the last 3 decades the EU have added 16 countries to its ranks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_state_of_the_European_Union

Russia has added only a small part of one: Crimea.

Far more wars is another laugh, Russia's number is 12:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia#Russian_Federation_(1991–present)

The UK alone has been involved in 9 in the same time period:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_Kingdom

You really wanna bet we can't find at least an additional 4 any other EU country was involved in, in the same time to surpass Russia? :ROFL:
 
C4Cat said:
I'm not sure the issue here. These are countries that have applied to join the EU, it's not like the EU is taking over countries without their consent. Turkey first applied to join the EEC in 1987, 30 years ago, and applied for full membership of the EU in 2005, so it's not like the the EU is ruthlessy taking over territories. And while there might be conflict between the EU and Russia. if the EU collapsed there would, once again, be conflict throughout Europe, which would be far worse. I'm firmly in that camp that thinks less borders is better than more.
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As ever with all organisations there are differing factions, and the EU is no exception. Do you think that the acceptance of FSR countries into the EU a few years back was universally welcomed in the EU? Do you think that Putin is happy to let the likes of Ukraine leave the Russian Federation? Bulgaria? Romania? Moldova? Serbia......... 'His' Black Sea has severely restricted access potentially these days. No doubt his naval machinations in the Black Sea this week are to make the point that he is in charge.

Russia has already one way or the other got control of a lot of Georgia, particularly around the Black Sea (Ossetia), although Batumi/ Adjaria (there are many acceptable spellings!) now seems back in the fold. (Back in 2000/1 when I was there it was noticed that the name of a prominent official was Shevadnardze, the same as that of the President of Georgia, Eduard Shevardnadze, beloved of the West because of his association with Glasnost. Be that as it may, shortly after the rose revolution when Shevardnadze ceased to be President, Adjaria rejoined the fold.) So it could be argued that even a candidate status for Georgia will stick in Putin's throat. This is a very strategic area. Then we have the Caspian....


Just imagine the thinking of Putin should Turkey and Georgia join the EU!!! Would you put it past Trump to manipulate in such a way? Russia's deployment of an aircraft carrier off Syria is just one example of his interests. Now look at it another way. Were The Russian Federation to pressurise Georgia and Turkey, what pressure would the EU receive to facilitate their absorption into the EU? The Russians have already got an autonomous state in the Caucasus in Georgia (South Ossetia) to help them on their way.


I do not think we alone have the capacity to take on the Russians, but with the USA we might. BUT if China side with Russia, as they did in central Asia, (2005 et seq) neighbouring on Afghanistan, when they saw off the US bases in the area to a large extent (Dushanbe, and others) then a whole new game opens. China are now building carriers to add to the present one, and can pressure the US with them.


Back in 2005 Chinese General Cheng hu made the point that if it came to it, China could lose all of its cities to the East of Xian to nuclear attacks, and survive. Xian is one of the most westerly cities of China, to save you looking it up. He was lightly disciplined. At the time China was short of carriers, but that is being rectified. They also had nuclear delivery problems, but could have used the french 'buddy' system at a pinch.

But a few months later they ordered Il 76 transport aircraft, 8 of which appeared to be refuelling versions. They also ordered Su 30 strike aircraft, which would give them the capability to take troops, equipment, and nuclear bombs to the USA. The orders were placed 13 years ago. Add in their indigenous aircraft capability, their naval base in Bangladesh, and they can cause both the US and Europe some difficulties in all sorts of places, particularly if they side with the Russians.
 
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NarrowBandFtw said:
You must be new to this whole facts thing. In the last 3 decades the EU have added 16 countries to its ranks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_state_of_the_European_Union

Russia has added only a small part of one: Crimea.
Click to expand...
wut? The EU added 16 countries, all of who applied to join the EU. It was done through peaceful application and negotiation. The Crimean peninsula was annexed from Ukraine by the Russian Federation by military force.
See the difference NMFTW? Given your username, no, you probably don't :rolleyes:
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
You must be new to this whole facts thing. In the last 3 decades the EU have added 16 countries to its ranks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_state_of_the_European_Union

Russia has added only a small part of one: Crimea.

Far more wars is another laugh, Russia's number is 12:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia#Russian_Federation_(1991–present)

The UK alone has been involved in 9 in the same time period:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_Kingdom

You really wanna bet we can't find at least an additional 4 any other EU country was involved in, in the same time to surpass Russia? :ROFL:
Click to expand...
Russia has control of two areas of Georgia - post 3444. Then look at earlier in the week in the Ukraine. Putin is on the go - think Syria.
 
Frequent visitor said:
As ever with all organisations there are differing factions, and the EU is no exception. Do you think that the acceptance of FSR countries into the EU a few years back was universally welcomed in the EU? Do you think that Putin is happy to let the likes of Ukraine leave the Russian Federation? Bulgaria? Romania? Moldova? Serbia......... 'His' Black Sea has severely restricted access potentially these days. No doubt his naval machinations in the Black Sea this week are to make the point that he is in charge. Russia has already one way or the other got control of a lot of Georgia, particularly around the Black Sea (Ossetia), although Batumi/ Adjaria (there are many acceptable spellings!) now seems back in the fold. (Back in 2000/1 when I was there it was noticed that the name of a prominent official was Shevadnardze, the same as that of the President of Georgia, Eduard Shevardnadze, beloved of the West because of his association with Glasnost. Be that as it may, shortly after the rose revolution when Shevardnadze ceased to be President, Adjaria rejoined the fold.) So it could be argued that even a candidate status for Georgia will stick in Putin's throat. This is a very strategic area. Then we have the Caspian....
Just imagine the thinking of Putin should Turkey and Georgia join the EU!!! Would you put it past Trump to manipulate in such a way? Russia's deployment of an aircraft carrier off Syria is just one example of his interests. Now look at it another way. Were The Russian Federation to pressurise Georgia and Turkey, what pressure would the EU receive to facilitate their absorption into the EU? The Russians have already got an autonomous state in the Caucasus in Georgia (South Ossetia) to help them on their way.
I do not think we alone have the capacity to take on the Russians, but with the USA we might. BUT if China side with Russia, as they did in central Asia, neighbouring on Afghanistan, when they saw off the US bases in the area to a large extent (Dushanbe, and others) then a whole new game opens. China are now building carriers to add to the present one, and can pressure the US with them.
Back in 2005 Chinese General Cheng hu made the point that if it came to it, China could lose all of its cities to the East of Xian to nuclear attacks, and survive. Xian is one of the most westerly cities of China, to save you looking it up. He was lightly disciplined. At the time China was short of carriers, but that is being rectified. They also had nuclear delivery problems, but could have used the french 'buddy' system at a pinch. But a few months later they ordered Il 76 transport aircraft, 8 of which appeared to be refuelling versions. They also ordered Su 30 strike aircraft, which would give them the capability to take troops, equipment, and nuclear bombs to the USA. The orders were placed 13 years ago. Add in their indigenous aircraft capability, their naval base in Bangladesh, and they can cause both the US and Europe some difficulties in all sorts of places, particularly if they side with the Russians.
Click to expand...

Any chance you could make smaller paragraphs with breaks between each one?

Some people read the forum on phone screens...
 
C4Cat said:
I'm not sure the issue here. These are countries that have applied to join the EU, it's not like the EU is taking over countries without their consent. Turkey first applied to join the EEC in 1987, 30 years ago, and applied for full membership of the EU in 2005, so it's not like the the EU is ruthlessy taking over territories. And while there might be conflict between the EU and Russia. if the EU collapsed there would, once again, be conflict throughout Europe, which would be far worse. I'm firmly in that camp that thinks less borders is better than more.
Click to expand...
I think Putin sees it differently, hence Crimea.
 
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