The Brexit Thread

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Dave said:
May messes up again.
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Wow. Now I am thinking it is a pity that she survived the vote of no confidence.

Come on - you go to Europe empty handed and expect them to make the problem go away?

It is such a MASSIVE change for the UK, I question whether May should have as much control as she does over it.

Or, perhaps May is trying to force the UK to have another referendum and rejoin? She might be politicking and hoping that Labour proposes a second referendum. Then Labour becomes unpopular with Brexit supporters, not the Tories, who can claim they tried.
 
Ancalagon said:
I question whether May should have as much control as she does over it.
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You aren’t alone in that thought.

Ancalagon said:
Or, perhaps May is trying to force the UK to have another referendum and rejoin? She might be politicking and hoping that Labour proposes a second referendum. Then Labour becomes unpopular with Brexit supporters, not the Tories, who can claim they tried.
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Latest polls show that support for a second referendum amongst Labour supporters is around 65% for, they won’t lose much as it stands, the activists around Momentum are overwhelmingly remain or 2nd ref which is a problem for Corbyn as they are his power base but he’s anti-EU and would love to crash out. He might lose his core supporters if he allows it though...
 
Dave said:
You aren’t alone in that thought.



Latest polls show that support for a second referendum amongst Labour supporters is around 65% for, they won’t lose much as it stands, the activists around Momentum are overwhelmingly remain or 2nd ref which is a problem for Corbyn as they are his power base but he’s anti-EU and would love to crash out. He might lose his core supporters if he allows it though...
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It's like there was an earthquake that derailed a train carrying thousands of tons of oil, and the train lands in a reactor which then goes critical. Like I could not have imagined a bigger stuff up.

Still, even if 65% of Labour supporters are pro remain, that leaves 35% that might not vote for Labour again if they go with a second referendum. That is huge.
 
Ancalagon said:
Still, even if 65% of Labour supporters are pro remain, that leaves 35% that might not vote for Labour again if they go with a second referendum. That is huge.
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Though they would likely pull voters who aren’t traditionally Labour by taking that viewpoint.

From memory they estimate that of the young people who turned 18 after June 2016 something like 80% are pro-remain, the 20-30 age group is also predominantly remain.

The Tories could lose almost the entire young vote if Labour moved to the middle and opposed Brexit (or at least went “people’s vote”).

Also, a lot of the younger generation don’t view Corbyn as suspiciously as older people do.
 
Dave said:
Though they would likely pull voters who aren’t traditionally Labour by taking that viewpoint.

From memory they estimate that of the young people who turned 18 after June 2016 something like 80% are pro-remain, the 20-30 age group is also predominantly remain.

The Tories could lose almost the entire young vote if Labour moved to the middle and opposed Brexit (or at least went “people’s vote”).

Also, a lot of the younger generation don’t view Corbyn as suspiciously as older people do.
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From what I've read about Corbyn, he is terrible.
 
Ancalagon said:
From what I've read about Corbyn, he is terrible.
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I’d agree, and think he’d probably be a disaster. The young see Brexit as a huge disaster though and don’t see Corbyn as the 1970’s throwback that he is.

The Conservatives making such a mess are handing the country to Corbyn with their blind rush to Brexit at all costs.
 
Dave said:
The young see Brexit as a huge disaster though and don’t see Corbyn as the 1970’s throwback that he is
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That's because the young are stupid and easily brainwashed, they've been bombarded 24/7 for a very long time into believing:
brexit = bad
socialism = good

Both are false of course.
 
Dave said:
Though they would likely pull voters who aren’t traditionally Labour by taking that viewpoint.

From memory they estimate that of the young people who turned 18 after June 2016 something like 80% are pro-remain, the 20-30 age group is also predominantly remain.

The Tories could lose almost the entire young vote if Labour moved to the middle and opposed Brexit (or at least went “people’s vote”).

Also, a lot of the younger generation don’t view Corbyn as suspiciously as older people do.
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As people grow older their politics can change. Also, not all young people have the same politics. If you look back at the generation that was 18 to 25 in the 60’s, you could have assumed that once they become leaders in business and politics things would improve, but it seems that corruption has gotten worse. Young people might enter politics with good intentions, but it doesn’t take much to turn enough of them to keep the gravy train rolling along. There is a lot said about political correctness in universities, but universities have always been that to some extent. Just wait till they graduate and get their first bribe. Business as usual. Humanity doesn’t change :)
 
zippy said:
As people grow older their politics can change. Also, not all young people have the same politics. If you look back at the generation that was 18 to 25 in the 60’s, you could have assumed that once they become leaders in business and politics things would improve, but it seems that corruption has gotten worse. Young people might enter politics with good intentions, but it doesn’t take much to turn enough of them to keep the gravy train rolling along. There is a lot said about political correctness in universities, but universities have always been that to some extent. Just wait till they graduate and get their first bribe. Business as usual. Humanity doesn’t change :)
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True, but doesn’t change the gist of my post, young people are predominantly anti-Brexit and the ones who’ve turned 18 since the referendum are said to be even more so.

It’s the reason the brexiteers are so anti the idea of another referendum, they know that over the two years a lot of Brexit supporters have died and a lot of Remain supporters have reached voting age.
 
Dave said:
In your opinion, I presume you meant to add ;)
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Nah, not just a matter of my personal opinion that one cannot just conclude any and all brexit scenarios to be "bad", that is just FUD that needs to be ignored.

and it sure as hell isn't an opinion, but a long established track record in history, that socialism is not good, ever
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
Nah, not just a matter of my personal opinion that one cannot just conclude any and all brexit scenarios to be "bad", that is just FUD that needs to be ignored.

and it sure as hell isn't an opinion, but a long established track record in history, that socialism is not good, ever
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A lot of people, including many experts in their fields believe this:

NarrowBandFtw said:
brexit = bad
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So it follows that an unequivocal statement like that has to be in your opinion?
 
Dave said:
So it follows that an unequivocal statement like that has to be in your opinion?
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Context sir, I said the youth are made to believe the unequivocal statement that brexit = bad.

I do not offer an opposing unequivocal statement on the topic of brexit, I merely allow for the possibility that it can turn out to be either good or bad or something in between.

The only unequivocal statement I made would be that socialism is always bad, which is a matter of recorded history.
 
Just luring the EU into a false sense of security.

As the date gets closer they might have to change that wording again, to add the word likely.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
The only unequivocal statement I made would be that socialism is always bad, which is a matter of recorded history.
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These socialist countries seem to be doing quite well. You need to check your sources of “recorded history” again

China
Denmark
Finland
Netherlands
Canada
Sweden
Norway
Ireland
New Zealand
Belgium
 
zippy said:
These socialist countries seem to be doing quite well. You need to check your sources of “recorded history” again

China
Denmark
Finland
Netherlands
Canada
Sweden
Norway
Ireland
New Zealand
Belgium
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You're 100% wrong about the Nordic countries. Or you don't know what a socialist country is...
 
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