The Brexit Thread

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I'm almost (!) feel sorry for the the EU fanatics on this thread...

I just knew the latest discussion would be about Nissan. But as predicted, the Remoaners here have ZERO concept of nuance...and none of them have seemingly contemplated why IF it was *mainly* due to Brexit, then why didn't Nissan move to another EU country instead of Japan? :unsure:

Now for anyone else who doesn't have a love affair with the EU, you can view the Twitter thread by Andrew Neil, one of the few non-lefties still hired by the BBC:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1092104718036414464

https://twitter.com/x/status/1092122820853882886

https://twitter.com/x/status/1092157545374830593

The real reasons behind Nissan's U-turn on Sunderland (it is locked to non-Premium subscribers so I will just post the main points)

1. Timing . The new Japan-EU free trade agreement has just come into effect on 1st February. The timing of this, so close to Nissan’s announcement is important.

2. The problems in the auto sector, already clear to many, especially the collapse in demand for diesel vehicles clearly played a major part.

3. The EU-Japan free trade agreement is likely to have played a significant part in this. The landmark Economic Partnership Agreement came into effect on 1st February 2019. As Asia House notes, this will remove 99% of the tariffs applied by the EU to Japanese goods and 97% of those applied by Japan.

4. Nissan will still produce in Sunderland as at present . While the potential new production line would have meant new jobs and investment this has to be seen alongside existing productive capacity. Nissan has already said production of the Qashqai will continue in Sunderland

5. The favourable backdrop for Nissan in Japan and the challenge for the UK to compete. The UK has offered a decent settlement for Nissan since the 90s. I don’t have all the specifics of this, but by all accounts it included specific tax advantages. In addition, as The Timestoday announces, the UK offered a £60 million package of support to Nissan in 2016, tied to its pledges linked to the Sunderland plant. That may now be in doubt.

6. All this may be a useful trigger for the UK to consider the need for future dynamism on domestic economic policy by this, or a future, UK Government. Large parts of the UK manufacturing base are very productive, but will still need future supportive domestic policy. The way to address this is to make the U.K. competitive via taxes and regulations, (and in time grow the U.K. economy so we become an even more attractive market to sell into). This necessities a pro high end manufacturing stance.

7. Staying within a Customs Union (CU) should not be knee-jerk UK reaction and also may not do anything more for the UK than ease short-term concerns . If we were to stay in a CU, we would be bound by the EU. For instance we will be at risk to the same factors that allowed Slovakia to provide aid to JLR

8. A general point is that there is an asymmetric way we tend to look at jobs . Greater attention is given, always, to jobs lost, than to new ones created. Just look at the media coverage of the City over the last year, where net new employment has taken second place to jobs relocated, even if far smaller in number.

9. In free trade deals there are winners and losers. But losers attract attention (this is similar to what happens when it comes to tax changes; for instance, you rarely hear the winners celebrate, but the losers are usually vocal).
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Chris_the_Brit said:
why didn't Nissan move to another EU country instead of Japan?
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Bacause they’ve just signed a FTA and can build and import from Japan to the EU with no import duties?

Moving the line into Europe would have cost investment (which they’d already done at Sunderland) and if Sunderland is now a doubt and likely to have increased costs they may as well move it to where there is capacity without needing to spend more money.

The Nissan car transporters already do the Europe (from Sunderland) to Far East route, now it’ll just be bringing more cars back to Europe rather than delivering them to Japan/the Far East.
 
global decline in car sales and a fta with japan, but no its brexit. that doesnt make sense.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
You high? The regular circle jerk is well known, we've had unhappy, orbital and cray weigh in, card carrying members of the circle jerk. Toxic Bunny has not quite got that membership card yet, but I understand his application is under review.

Not to mention Sayf777 got it without assistance and noone else bothered with this boring discussion at all, can hardly blame them. Of course you wouldn't be silly enough to claim that majority opinion somehow alters objective fact now would you?
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I have literally said nothing about your discussion.
 
Dave said:
Bacause they’ve just signed a FTA and can build and import from Japan to the EU with no import duties?

Moving the line into Europe would have cost investment (which they’d already done at Sunderland) and if Sunderland is now a doubt and likely to have increased costs they may as well move it to where there is capacity without needing to spend more money.

The Nissan car transporters already do the Europe (from Sunderland) to Far East route, now it’ll just be bringing more cars back to Europe rather than delivering them to Japan/the Far East.
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What a hilarious self-own by Chris.

Even the first point about the FTA with Japan confirms it's basically about Brexit. Without Brexit they would have been part of that FTA. Derp. :rolleyes:
 
Dave said:
the EU is just being difficult and not willing to cooperate
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pfffff, the EU is cooperating all too well, with those who want stop brexit aka the entire UK parliament

- one party fear mongers to the point where people actually think hard brexit is the worst outcome
- the other party helps tee up the pieces to make hard brexit the only outcome other than cancelling brexit
- viola, brainwashed masses long for continued servitude to the EUSSR

that's cooperation, not "being difficult"
 
f2wohf said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1092470380114132994
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From my understanding the Backstop is in favor of international trade agreements. If no backstop, it creates a MASSIVE headache for the EU, not so much the UK. It just means the EU itself will need to have checks in place on both sides of that specific port/s. Will create delays I'm sure, but the responsibility rests with the EU.

I think that's why it's such a contentious issue from an EU point of view. And the reason the UK is using it as some form of leverage it seems.
 
Pitbull said:
From my understanding the Backstop is in favor of international trade agreements. If no backstop, it creates a MASSIVE headache for the EU, not so much the UK. It just means the EU itself will need to have checks in place on both sides of that specific port/s. Will create delays I'm sure, but the responsibility rests with the EU.

I think that's why it's such a contentious issue from an EU point of view. And the reason the UK is using it as some form of leverage it seems.
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I don't see it that way. It's the UK that wants to leave the customs union and the single market. How can they do that without proper border control and customs?
 
was the fta with japan established because of brexit, or was it just another trade agreement with another country. ah brexit, lets now trade with japan. wtf.

will all trade agreements with other countries now be the result of brexit

really seems like people making things up to blame the uk for, "look what you have done, bad dog! bad!"


why not move that nissan production to another eu country like spain.

did the entire plant close down in sunderland or is it just the one model production
 
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C4Cat said:
I don't see it that way. It's the UK that wants to leave the customs union and the single market. How can they do that without proper border control and customs?
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It's creating a headache as Ireland is part of the UK. So if the EU sends items to Ireland without checks needed it's technically in the UK already. However to abide by International Trade Agreements this can not happen. So the UK is saying, **** it, you want to send items to Ireland, do so but that is your baby, you need to agree to international trade agreements.
 
access said:
was the fta with japan established because of brexit, or was it just another trade agreement with another country. ah brexit, lets now trade with japan. wtf.

will all trade agreements with other countries now be the result of brexit

really seems like people making things up to blame the uk for, "look what you have done, bad dog! bad!"


why not move that nissan production to another eu country like spain.
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Cos SUnderland had the multi-billion dollar plant.... spain does not.
 
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