The Brexit Thread

[ToxicBunny]

The mind boggles....

No Deal is a fark storm for the UK, period.

 

[Pitbull]

The UK wants a hard brexxit which requires a hard border between it and the EU, if the EU and the UK are under different customs regimes this means there need to be checks on both sides of the border, one by EU customs and one by UK customs.

No, ITA requires a border between the Republic and the North. That is the Republic and the EUs problem how they will comply to those agreements. Not Brexit. Brexit, is the UK leaving the EU. EU can deal with their own headaches after on how to try and comply with the ITA (which will need an amendment or EU can't free trade with the Republic). This affects the UK in no shape or form. Either they pay duties or they don't. But they refuse to put a border between the Republic and Northern Ireland due to the Belfast agreement.

The UK is holding ALL the cards but try and please the EU.

Makes no sense to me. Republic of Ireland and the EU will have to come to some sort of arrangement to meet the ITA. UK can't be arsed.

 

[Pitbull]

The mind boggles....

No Deal is a fark storm for the UK, period.

Explain it to me?

It can't be that hard if it's boggling your mind...

 

[C4Cat]

Yes, free trade is 100% possible. Between the Republic and Northern Ireland. The fact that it falls outside of the Custom Union lies with the EU. So the EU, and Republic of Ireland needs to come up with some sort of a way to comply with ITA and free trade between Northern Ireland. You guys are complicating the issue way more than it needs to be.

The EU doesn't want free trade with Northern Ireland as goods will come to the UK via Northern Ireland duty free. (That's what I would have done if I was running the UK) So changes nothing to the UK/England when it comes to duties on goods as there will be none). If the EU wants duties on these goods because they will end up in the Uk/England anyway duty free, THEY need to come up with a solution to it.

The main reason for the UK leaving the UK is because of disagreement with EU rules and laws pertaining to open borders for PEOPLE. The people of the UK voted to not be part of the EU passport laws where they have zero control of who enters. EU passport holder can walk in freely... The politicians, and the remoaners are trying to use this as some sort of punishment for the UK leaving the EU. For the EU to send goods to the Republic of Ireland duty free will be a violation of the ITA due to no custom check between the Republic and Northern Ireland.

This is 100% a problem for the EU and Republic of Ireland, doesn't phase the UK at all. No-Deal will be a fark storm for the EU and Republic of Ireland.

you say free trade is 100% possible. Between the Republic (EU) and Northern Ireland (UK). The UK doesn't want a free trade agreement with the EU, remember?

 

[ToxicBunny]

Explain it to me?

It can't be that hard if it's boggling your mind...

The part that boggles my mind is how you can't see that this is the UKs problem..

Yes the EU as well to a degree, but predominantly the UKs problem since THEY initiated Brexit.

 

[Cray]

Yes, free trade is 100% possible. Between the Republic and Northern Ireland. The fact that it falls outside of the Custom Union lies with the EU.

No it's not, Northern Ireland politicians have already stated that the will not accept Northern Ireland (NI) being treated different to the UK which means that if the UK leaves the customs union so will NI. How do you then propose to maintain free trade between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland if they are in different customs unions? If you then say that Northern Ireland remains within the EU customs unions how would the UK enforce trade tariffs and duties from the EU that it might need to impose as part of any other trade deal it concludes with the rest of the world? The UK cannot retain it's current arrangement at the common land border and still remain apart of the customs union. It also cannot put up a customs border between NI and the rest of the UK as that will cause unionists in NI to lose their s**t...

Imposition of duties and customs is not just something that the EU will do, the UK will need to do it as well on it's side of the border.

 

[roadcat]

I don't see how this is the UKs problem.

A big part of the Leave campaign was taking back control of their borders. So it's a central issue to their entire policy. Can't have all those immigrants from the EU waltzing through an open border now can we?

 

[Verde]

Maybe go read the international Trade agreement. But like I said, I could be understanding it wrong.

There is no ITA between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, or between the UK and the EU.
There is no hard border between NI and the republic at the moment by virtue of the fact that both entities belong to the EU.

 

[Pitbull]

you say free trade is 100% possible. Between the Republic (EU) and Northern Ireland (UK). The UK doesn't want a free trade agreement with the EU, remember?

The UK, wants control of it's borders. Simple as that. There is zero issue with having a border between NR and RI. The responsibility to enforce custom duties and the likes will be the EUs responsibility if they want to continue duty free trade with RI. If the EU wants to have duty with NI/UK, it's the responsibility of RI and the EU to regulate and control these goods.

The RI and NI Belfast agreement is about Governing. Simple as that.

Everyone in here is trying to make these issues more complicated than they should be.

 

[Pitbull]

There is no ITA between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, or between the UK and the EU.
There is no hard border between NI and the republic at the moment by virtue of the fact that both entities belong to the EU.

And I fully agree.

You now have a border at RI and NI, where NI can control who enters their borders, RI and EU will have to manage the custom side of things as that seems to be their issue. For the free trade between RI and EU to remain and for them to keep with ITA they will need to make sure goods entering NI are controlled and duties applied. NI/UK can't give a shyte if it comes through with or without duties, they will just not be responsible for it, and they don't have too. not their responsibility.

 

[ToxicBunny]

The UK, wants control of it's borders. Simple as that. There is zero issue with having a border between NR and RI. The responsibility to enforce custom duties and the likes will be the EUs responsibility if they want to continue duty free trade with RI. If the EU wants to have duty with NI/UK, it's the responsibility of RI and the EU to regulate and control these goods.

The RI and NI Belfast agreement is about Governing. Simple as that.

Everyone in here is trying to make these issues more complicated than they should be.

No, the responsibility is BOTH sides, not just the EU.

 

[Hamish McPanji]

Bacause they’ve just signed a FTA and can build and import from Japan to the EU with no import duties?

Moving the line into Europe would have cost investment (which they’d already done at Sunderland) and if Sunderland is now a doubt and likely to have increased costs they may as well move it to where there is capacity without needing to spend more money.

The Nissan car transporters already do the Europe (from Sunderland) to Far East route, now it’ll just be bringing more cars back to Europe rather than delivering them to Japan/the Far East.

Sunderland is a dangerous place, y'all. With the dodgiest people. They don't want the cars to be stolen off the assembly line.

I know someone from Sunderland. It's true

 

[C4Cat]

And I fully agree.
You now have a border at RI and NI, where NI can control who enters their borders

Which means doing away with the Belfast Agreement, which the UK doesn't want. How can this be so difficult to understand? Do you really think this would be the primary stumbling block for Brexit negotiations if there was an easy solution? The Belfast Agreement isn't just about trade, it also guarantees free movement of people and business between NI and Ireland.

 

[Hamish McPanji]

The part that boggles my mind is how you can't see that this is the UKs problem..

Yes the EU as well to a degree, but predominantly the UKs problem since THEY initiated Brexit.

You're all wasting your time. Facts have no place in this discussion

 

[Pitbull]

No, the responsibility is BOTH sides, not just the EU.

The EU needs to comply with this in order to keep other EU members Happy as per the EU customs union. Who is the UK suppose to keep happy? Do they pay duties, cool. If not, better. The UK is giving this much more attention than it needs. I can see why Parliament is so opposed to the Back-stop.

 

[Verde]

And I fully agree.

You now have a border at RI and NI, where NI can control who enters their borders, RI and EU will have to manage the custom side of things as that seems to be their issue. For the free trade between RI and EU to remain and for them to keep with ITA they will need to make sure goods entering NI are controlled and duties applied. NI/UK can't give a shyte if it comes through with or without duties, they will just not be responsible for it, and they don't have too. not their responsibility.

When the UK leaves the EU on 29 March there will be no trade agreement in place between the 2 entities.
The withdrawal agreement negotiated by May is an interim agreement which keeps the UK temporarily in the customs union pending a negotiated trade agreement.
Leaving with no deal means leaving with no agreement in place.
In both cases a permanent trade agreement will have to be concluded in future.

If the UK leaves without an interim arrangement which avoids a hard land border on the Irish island, that action will logically result in a hard border.
There is no precedent anywhere on the planet where neighbouring countries don't enforce a hard border without being part of the same customs union.

Thus the action of leaving the EU without an agreement (temporary or permanent) puts the UK in breach of the Good Friday agreement.

 

[Pitbull]

Which means doing away with the Belfast Agreement, which the UK doesn't want. How can this be so difficult to understand? Do you really think this would be the primary stumbling block for Brexit negotiations if there was an easy solution? The Belfast Agreement isn't just about trade, it also guarantees free movement of people and business between NI and Ireland.

Please tell me what the Belfast agreement entails?

 

[2026]

When the UK leaves the EU on 29 March there will be no trade agreement in place between the 2 entities.
The withdrawal agreement negotiated by May is an interim agreement which keeps the UK temporarily in the customs union pending a negotiated trade agreement.
Leaving with no deal means leaving with no agreement in place.
In both cases a permanent trade agreement will have to be concluded in future.

If the UK leaves without an interim arrangement which avoids a hard land border on the Irish island, that action will logically result in a hard border.
There is no precedent anywhere on the planet where neighbouring countries don't enforce a hard border without being part of the same customs union.

Thus the action of leaving the EU without an agreement (temporary or permanent) puts the UK in breach of the Good Friday agreement.

Not quite following, what will the be in breach of in the Good Friday agreement?

 

[Cray]

The EU needs to comply with this in order to keep other EU members Happy as per the EU customs union.

The whole point of leaving the customs union is that the UK may want to decide to levy tariffs and duties on specific EU goods to promote their own industries. In addition the UK might conclude trade deals with 3rd parties that require them to favor that countries products over the EU which would require them to levy tariffs on those EU goods when entering the UK.

The EU have said that the UK can remain in the customs union, but the UK have rejected it which means they reject the idea of goods travelling between the EU and the UK without the ability to imposed their own tariffs and duties. They also know that being within the customs union might restrict their ability to do trade deals with other countries as those countries might ask the UK to impose tariffs on specific EU products.

 

[Verde]

NI/UK can't give a shyte if it comes through with or without duties, they will just not be responsible for it, and they don't have too. not their responsibility.

So if the EU imposes duties on UK farming products do you think the UK farmers will be happy if the UK government allows Irish farming products to enter duty free.