The Brexit Thread

[Verde]

Not quite following, what will the be in breach of in the Good Friday agreement?

The UK agreed in the GF agreement not to impose a hard border.
Their action of leaving the EU without an agreement avoiding a hard border necessarily imposes a hard border as is the case all over the world in such a situation.
They are therefore in breach of the GF agreement.

 

[2026]

The UK agreed in the GF agreement not to impose a hard border.
Their action of leaving the EU without an agreement avoiding a hard border necessarily imposes a hard border as is the case all over the world in such a situation.
They are therefore in breach of the GF agreement.

Sound like something the UK and Ireland need to sort out, or does the EU have to get involved with borders of it's member states?

 

[Verde]

Sound like something the UK and Ireland need to sort out, or does the EU have to get involved with borders of it's member states?

Off course R of Ireland as an EU member has to comply with EU trade rules.
They have to ensure that EU levies are imposed on imports and that EU regulations are followed.

 

[Cray]

Sound like something the UK and Ireland need to sort out, or does the EU have to get involved with borders of it's member states?

The problem is the customs union if the UK leaves., if the border remains as it is now, how do you control the movement of good between the Republic and NI (and the rest of the UK)? It seems rather pointless to check all those trucks at Dover if people can rather bring goods into the Republic and then into the UK via NI without having to clear customs due to the lack of a hard border. Similarly how do you control those pesky immigrants that would just need to hop on a ferry to Dublin, catch a bus to Belfast and then a ferry to mainland UK?

 

[2026]

The problem is the customs union if the UK leaves., if the border remains as it is now, how do you control the movement of good between the Republic and NI (and the rest of the UK)? It seems rather pointless to check all those trucks at Dover if people can rather bring goods into the Republic and then into the UK via NI without having to clear customs due to the lack of a hard border. Similarly how do you control those pesky immigrants that would just need to hop on a ferry to Dublin, catch a bus to Belfast and then a ferry to mainland UK?

If that's the agreement between UK and Ireland then that is how it should be then surely? I get some people may be upset over this, but those are the agreements made and decisions voted for.

 

[2026]

Off course R of Ireland as an EU member has to comply with EU trade rules.
They have to ensure that EU levies are imposed on imports and that EU regulations are followed.

Then doesnt that mean EU is forcing Ireland to breach the Good friday agreement as well then? ( wiki is terrible on this agreement, it's hard to read and understand)

 

[Pitbull]

So if the EU imposes duties on UK farming products do you think the UK farmers will be happy if the UK government allows Irish farming products to enter duty free.

Why would that happen? Car to explain this conclusion to me?

That will place the RI in breach of their Custom union with EU. It's like saying, RI currently importing goods from SA duty free, in breach of their custom union with the EU. It's not happening. If the RI "exports" to NI duty free they are in violation of their Custom agreement. The Belfast agreement stands, it's up to RI to abide by it in breach of their agreement with the EU or add duties to the goods in breach of the UK.

Let's look at the intricate part here between RI/NI.

The good Friday agreement makes provision for: each side to institute checks as required for security.

I recall a time RI themselves implemented a border with armed guards to stop cattle being moved between NI and RI with some foot and mouth outbreak. Ireland is playing politics here and the Bemoaners are falling for it hook line and sinker. A hard border between RI and NI will not be a breach of the agreement. The duty/duty free issue, is between EU and RI. From my understanding there are already different tariffs on things like fuel and cigarettes between NI and RI. So even duties/tariffs are not an issue.

Some please tell me how this is breaking the Belfast agreement?

 

[Pitbull]

The problem is the customs union if the UK leaves., if the border remains as it is now, how do you control the movement of good between the Republic and NI (and the rest of the UK)? It seems rather pointless to check all those trucks at Dover if people can rather bring goods into the Republic and then into the UK via NI without having to clear customs due to the lack of a hard border. Similarly how do you control those pesky immigrants that would just need to hop on a ferry to Dublin, catch a bus to Belfast and then a ferry to mainland UK?

You put a hard border. RI themselves have implemented one before. why would this be different? Only difference is, RI/NI citizens will have free movement between the borders, EU nationals won't.

 

[Cray]

If that's the agreement between UK and Ireland then that is how it should be then surely? I get some people may be upset over this, but those are the agreements made and decisions voted for.

What this means though is that essentially the UK will remain within the customs union (soft brexxit) Hard core brexiteers have stated that this is a perversion of the intent of the referendum and have rejected it. They want out of the customs union and you cannot maintain that without a hard border between the republic and NI.

 

[Cray]

You put a hard border. RI themselves have implemented one before. why would this be different? Only difference is, RI/NI citizens will have free movement between the borders, EU nationals won't.

Yet you are still going to have to ask people to show their passports to prove that they are from the NI/RI - that is like any other border that allows visa free travel and it perverts the intent of the Good Friday agreement.

 

[2026]

What this means though is that essentially the UK will remain within the customs union (soft brexxit) Hard core brexiteers have stated that this is a perversion of the intent of the referendum and have rejected it. They want out of the customs union and you cannot maintain that without a hard border between the republic and NI.

And UK would remain in the customs union with a No Deal brexit because of this Good Friday agreement?

 

[Pitbull]

Then doesnt that mean EU is forcing Ireland to breach the Good friday agreement as well then? ( wiki is terrible on this agreement, it's hard to read and understand)

From my very limited understanding.

It's an agreement that the NI still fall under UK rule. RI is independent. However, these two countries are adjoined and without border limitations seen as one "country" with free movement. They already have different currencies, duties and so forth. The issue here is the people's feels about having soldiers and a physical border again. Reminds them of the IRA days and what not...

Feels are getting in the way of the logistics of it being done in such a way that it's easy to implement and control. In all logical terms they are two different countries without a physical border.

 

[ToxicBunny]

The EU needs to comply with this in order to keep other EU members Happy as per the EU customs union. Who is the UK suppose to keep happy? Do they pay duties, cool. If not, better. The UK is giving this much more attention than it needs. I can see why Parliament is so opposed to the Back-stop.

Honestly, you have zero idea about how this all works... no real point in trying to be logical with you on this stuff, since it just seems to fly straight over your head.

 

[Pitbull]

Yet you are still going to have to ask people to show their passports to prove that they are from the NI/RI - that is like any other border that allows visa free travel and it perverts the intent of the Good Friday agreement.

Like I said... feels...

Please show me where asking a passport for security reasons are in breach of the Belfast agreement... The agreement allows each side to institute checks as required for security purposes if so required. A split from the UK is such a purpose.

 

[Verde]

Why would that happen? Car to explain this conclusion to me?

That will place the RI in breach of their Custom union with EU. It's like saying, RI currently importing goods from SA duty free, in breach of their custom union with the EU. It's not happening. If the RI "exports" to NI duty free they are in violation of their Custom agreement. The Belfast agreement stands, it's up to RI to abide by it in breach of their agreement with the EU or add duties to the goods in breach of the UK.

Let's look at the intricate part here between RI/NI.

The good Friday agreement makes provision for: each side to institute checks as required for security.

I recall a time RI themselves implemented a border with armed guards to stop cattle being moved between NI and RI with some foot and mouth outbreak. Ireland is playing politics here and the Bemoaners are falling for it hook line and sinker. A hard border between RI and NI will not be a breach of the agreement. The duty/duty free issue, is between EU and RI. From my understanding there are already different tariffs on things like fuel and cigarettes between NI and RI. So even duties/tariffs are not an issue.

Some please tell me how this is breaking the Belfast agreement?

My comment had nothing to do with the GF agreement.
You are arguing that the UK has nothing to lose if they don't enforce border controls at the Irish land border.

It is obvious that UK farmers will be put at a competitive disadvantage if the EU imposes duties on their products, but Irish products are freely allowed into the UK.

 

[Pitbull]

Honestly, you have zero idea about how this all works... no real point in trying to be logical with you on this stuff, since it just seems to fly straight over your head.

Coming from the guys who think putting a border and having security is a breach of the agreement.

It makes provisions for it if and when it's required. RI themselves have done it before... Obviously not a permanent one, but no one is saying a permanent one is not allowed if the need arises. Leaving the EU the need arises.

 

[Cray]

Like I said... feels...
.

Since those "feels" led to 30 years of "the troubles" it might not be the smartest thing to dismiss them out of turn.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Coming from the guys who think putting a border and having security is a breach of the agreement.

It makes provisions for it if and when it's required. RI themselves have done it before... Obviously not a permanent one, but no one is saying a permanent one is not allowed if the need arises. Leaving the EU the need arises.

I'm totally aware of what the GFA allows for... but saying it is entirely the EU's problem like you are is retarded and wrong.

 

[Pitbull]

Since those "feels" led to 30 years of "the troubles" it might not be the smartest thing to dismiss them out of turn.

No Cray...

I have asked you guys numerous times now to please show me where implementing a border and security is in breach of the agreement. None of you can as there is no such a thing. Yes, I do understand the issues which led to the split. But RI themselves and the people need to realize they chose to have the hard border in place when they decided not to enter into Brexit with the UK. THEY voted for it.

We had a similar thing happen in the 80s. People got on with it... SWA-Namibia/South Africa

 

[Pitbull]

I'm totally aware of what the GFA allows for... but saying it is entirely the EU's problem like you are is retarded and wrong.

Ok so Hard border is not the issue then?

Care to tell me what is the issue then?

I just want to get rid of these discussions hanging all over the place. Can we now all agree Hard border does not break the Belfast agreement? And move on to the next issue?