The Brexit Thread

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*pats on head*

Using words like "betrayal" is classed as emotive language.
If I say I'm gonna catch you when you fall, and then you jump because you think I'm going to catch you, and I don't catch you and you fall to your death, the fact that I betrayed you is not merely a feeling you have.

That must be your own head you're patting. :sneaky:
 
If I say I'm gonna catch you when you fall, and then you jump because you think I'm going to catch you, and I don't catch you and you fall to your death, the fact that I betrayed you is not merely a feeling you have.

That must be your own head you're patting. :sneaky:

Doesn't change the fact that its emotive language son....
 
Doesn't change the fact that its emotive language son....
Don't you know that a politician voting against the perceived will of the electorate is exactly the same as you falling to your death when expecting to be saved.
 
Don't you know that a politician voting against the perceived will of the electorate is exactly the same as you falling to your death when expecting to be saved.

Well yes, that too..

I did read the example and my first response in my head was "Wtf does that have to do with the price of fried fish legs"
 
Doesn't change the fact that its emotive language son....
Well yes, that too..

I did read the example and my first response in my head was "Wtf does that have to do with the price of fried fish legs"
:ROFL:

Parliament is elected to serve the people. That is their job description in a democracy. When they stand for election, they're offering their services to their prospective employers, the people. Insofar as the government called for a referendum and asked the people to make a decision, it is incumbent upon the employees of the people to carry out that decision faithfully, as opposed to betraying the decision by not acting in good faith. And should the employees sabotage the instructions of their bosses, their sabotage is a matter of fact and has nothing to do with emotive language. It is a de facto betrayal, in the same way that if someone hires you to clean some windows and you wipe mud all over them instead it would be a clear case of failing to do the job properly by way of disloyal behaviour, in much the same way that lying to you in order to provoke you into killing yourself would be disloyal behaviour. But you'd have us believe all this is just "emotional". :ROFL:
 
Don't you know that a politician voting against the perceived will of the electorate is exactly the same as you falling to your death when expecting to be saved.
Yeah, stupid sheep, thinking politicians are there to serve them. They really should know better. :sneaky:
 
:ROFL:

Parliament is elected to serve the people. That is their job description in a democracy. When they stand for election, they're offering their services to their prospective employers, the people. Insofar as the government called for a referendum and asked the people to make a decision, it is incumbent upon the employees of the people to carry out that decision faithfully, as opposed to betraying the decision by not acting in good faith. And should the employees sabotage the instructions of their bosses, their sabotage is a matter of fact and has nothing to do with emotive language. It is a de facto betrayal, in the same way that if someone hires you to clean some windows and you wipe mud all over them instead it would be a clear case of failing to do the job properly by way of disloyal behaviour, in much the same way that lying to you in order to provoke you into killing yourself would be disloyal behaviour. But you'd have us believe all this is just "emotional". :ROFL:

Are politicians allowed to vote with their conscience? Surely an elected official has the right to vote for what he believes is right/best for the country even if it goes against the will of the people (which may or may not still be what it was when the referendum took place) ?

Isn't that how most democracies work, people aren't elected to do the direct will of the people on every decision, they are elected to make those decisions for the electorate who can't possibly vote on every decision. You don't like the decisions of the person you elected you vote him out but you can't moan that because he did what he felt was best for the country that its some kind of betrayal. Your window cleaning analogy is ridiculous, elected officials are not accountable to the public for their individual actions (if legal) except at the poles.
 
:ROFL:

Parliament is elected to serve the people. That is their job description in a democracy. When they stand for election, they're offering their services to their prospective employers, the people. Insofar as the government called for a referendum and asked the people to make a decision, it is incumbent upon the employees of the people to carry out that decision faithfully, as opposed to betraying the decision by not acting in good faith. And should the employees sabotage the instructions of their bosses, their sabotage is a matter of fact and has nothing to do with emotive language. It is a de facto betrayal, in the same way that if someone hires you to clean some windows and you wipe mud all over them instead it would be a clear case of failing to do the job properly by way of disloyal behaviour, in much the same way that lying to you in order to provoke you into killing yourself would be disloyal behaviour. But you'd have us believe all this is just "emotional". :ROFL:

Yeah its not...
 
Are politicians allowed to vote with their conscience?
Sure, in theory, when the politician has been elected to be a representative of the people and the people have not explicitly made their wishes known by way of a referendum. If they truly object to carrying out the will of the people because of their conscience, then they ought to resign.

Surely an elected official has the right to vote for what he believes is right/best for the country even if it goes against the will of the people (which may or may not still be what it was when the referendum took place) ?
Not if it's a democracy.

Isn't that how most democracies work, people aren't elected to do the direct will of the people on every decision, they are elected to make those decisions for the electorate who can't possibly vote on every decision.
Right, the public is usually not consulted on each and every decision, that's what makes most modern democracies representative democracies rather than direct democracies. However, the referendum is a very clear exception, and if people don't want the will of the people to carry the day, then they shouldn't pretend that they are a democracy, and should rather call the government something more accurate.

You don't like the decisions of the person you elected you vote him out but you can't moan that because he did what he felt was best for the country that its some kind of betrayal. Your window cleaning analogy is ridiculous, elected officials are not accountable to the public for their individual actions (if legal) except at the poles.
They are when a referendum has been instituted. We have a referendum decision in this case. It doesn't matter if the elites think they know better than the masses, they have a job to do and if they can't do it then as far as I'm concerned they should be forced out of office by any means necessary in favour of individuals who can.
 
their sabotage is a matter of fact and has nothing to do with emotive language. It is a de facto betrayal
People seem to be struggling with the difference between emotion and language here. Ignorantly, or perhaps intentionally, assuming there's emotive intent behind words to fit whatever warped little minds they have.

As the author of the word 'betray/-ed/-al' in this case I'm surely the only one qualified to comment on the intent of my language choice, and I have, end of story. After all the only thing that separates normal language from emotive language is intent, what utter fool will debate someone's intent to contradict that person's direct statement on the matter without a shred of evidence?

Boggles the mind really.
 
People seem to be struggling with the difference between emotion and language here. Ignorantly, or perhaps intentionally, assuming there's emotive intent behind words to fit whatever warped little minds they have.

As the author of the word 'betray/-ed/-al' in this case I'm surely the only one qualified to comment on the intent of my language choice, and I have, end of story. After all the only thing that separates normal language from emotive language is intent, what utter fool will debate someone's intent to contradict that person's direct statement on the matter without a shred of evidence?

Boggles the mind really.

Hardly boggles the mind, its pretty open and easy to understand really.
 
Hardly boggles the mind, its pretty open and easy to understand really.
Oh it is supremely easy to understand: only a simpleton would argue from a position of weakness without any evidence, hence it must have been simpletons doing it.

What boggles the mind is why the simpletons insist on revealing themselves.
 
Parliament is elected to serve the people.

No, it isn’t.

Members of the House of Commons hold, in effect, a triple mandate.

They represent all the people of their constituency, their party and the interests of the country. It is a tenet of representative democracy that MPs are not delegates for their constituents.

This means that, while the views of constituents are frequently considered, the actions of MPs are governed by their determination of the best interests of their constituency, their party and the country as a whole.

https://www.politics.co.uk/reference/mps-and-political-artiesp
 
Oh it is supremely easy to understand: only a simpleton would argue from a position of weakness without any evidence, hence it must have been simpletons doing it.

What boggles the mind is why the simpletons insist on revealing themselves.

I know, its so very very strange.... Stupid people everywhere.
 
Yes it is. Serving the interests of the country means nothing if not serving the people who live inside it. And the same goes for being elected to serve one's constituents.

But you know what, what do I care? It's not my country. It's no skin off my nose to watch arrogant politicians defy the will of the people after a referendum was called. You and your lot think populism is bad now, watch what happens after the government proves to the people that it doesn't have a shred of integrity. You'll be pining for the days that the populists were affable like Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro. :sneaky:
 
Yes it is.

No, it’s not. Parliament does not exist to simply serve the electorate and MP’s are not there to serve their constituents, MP’s need to make their own determination of what’s best for their constituency and the country as a whole.

I’ll repeat the most important facts.

MPs are not delegates for their constituents

MPs are governed by their determination of the best interests of their constituency, their party and the country as a whole.
 
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