The F-35 thread

FoXtroT said:
F-35 is clearly showing it is superior to the F-16, F-18 & AV-8. The A-10 is another question altogether but the fact remains the aircraft its replacing aren't really very different from each other in terms of their roles.

As for your other point, how would you like the F-35 to prove it's air-to-air operational effectiveness? Fly through Russia shooting down Mig's and Su's?
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Yes until that aircraft is used against an contemporary threat then everything is simulations.
 
Blu82 said:
Until it turns around since it has no rear facing radar so the Growler is a better bet.

All network and sensor fusion stuff can be retroactively added to the legacy aircraft with avionics upgrades or pods so that leaves the F-35 with it stealth capability as a trump card. There are however radar systems in the work that are specifically designed to counter stealth and then what for the F-35?
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The Growler does not have rear facing radar? Plus, the F-35 is not replacing the Growler, at least not yet. Two different missions.

Do you honestly understand exactly what you are talking about?

The amount you would pay to refit the aircraft its replacing with like for like avionics you may as well have built a new airframe anyway.
 
Blu82 said:
Yes until that aircraft is used against an contemporary threat then everything is simulations.
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In that case, the F-15s, F-16s, F-18s etc. have yet to prove their effectiveness since the US hasn't come up against a contemporary threat since Vietnam, or arguably Korea.
 
A research paper on the the use of the A-10 in Afghanistan for those who want to read it.

Source
 
Blu82 said:
A research paper on the the use of the A-10 in Afghanistan for those who want to read it.

Source
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How much use is the A10 in any contested airspace when facing an opponent with any reasonable air defence network?

Or do you think they will only be fighting against Taliban type enemies for the next 50 years?
 
FoXtroT said:
In that case, the F-15s, F-16s, F-18s etc. have yet to prove their effectiveness since the US hasn't come up against a contemporary threat since Vietnam, or arguably Korea.
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They did however operate in a way more high risk environment with the Israeli's.
 
Dave123 said:
How much use is the A10 in any contested airspace when facing an opponent with any reasonable air defence network?

Or do you think they will only be fighting against Taliban type enemies for the next 50 years?
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The expected the entire inventory will be shot down inside 30 days when they initially fielded the aircraft in the cold war but that is the world of a CAS aircraft.
 
Is it a coincidence that the F-35 produced such fantastic results at Red Flag, pretty much at the same time POTUS is threatening the programme?

Like what Blu said, what was the ROE? What radar systems were used as the SAM sites? How do they compare to an S-400 system?

I get that the F-35 is good. But is it the best bang for the buck they have spent and continue to spend?
 
Dave123 said:
How much use is the A10 in any contested airspace when facing an opponent with any reasonable air defence network?

Or do you think they will only be fighting against Taliban type enemies for the next 50 years?
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How good will the F-35 be with 2 bombs? If it uses its external hardpoints all stealth is negated.

Also a far inferior gun.
 
Blu82 said:
The expected the entire inventory will be shot down inside 30 days when they initially fielded the aircraft in the cold war but that is the world of a CAS aircraft.
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And that's why unmanned will be the ultimate replacement and in 10 years when the A10 is eventually scrapped the tasks can be filled by a combination of drones/AH-64 and fast jets.

From the Afghanistan type conflict the AH64 is far more versatile and the odds of the massed tanks of the Red Army swarming into Europe are pretty low and that's really the only scenario the A10 is likely to be better at.

If it's not like Afghanistan, the A10 has issues...
 
buka001 said:
Is it a coincidence that the F-35 produced such fantastic results at Red Flag, pretty much at the same time POTUS is threatening the programme?
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You're a bit behind the times. Did you see the link on the previous page where Trump is taking credit for a price reduction on the next batch?
 
Dave123 said:
You're a bit behind the times. Did you see the link on the previous page where Trump is taking credit for a price reduction on the next batch?
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Yes and this news only bolsters that decision.

Do you really think they would have come out at a time like this and said something like F-35 suffers major set backs on Red Flag over 60% lost in first day ...

With all the negative press there was no better time than to come out and say this.
 
buka001 said:
Yes and this news only bolsters that decision.

Do you really think they would have come out at a time like this and said something like F-35 suffers major set backs on Red Flag over 60% lost in first day ...

With all the negative press there was no better time than to come out and say this.
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You realise Red Flag runs to specific rules with impartial observers that would be quick to come out and say so if it was a whitewash, there are still powerful groupings of supporters for other planes (why do think there's been so much noise about updated F18's recently).

You might want to read up how prescriptive the excercises are and just how many organisations and countries take part.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Red_Flag#Organization



...or buy more tin foil...
 
Dave123 said:
You realise Red Flag runs to specific rules with impartial observers that would be quick to come out and say so if it was a whitewash, there are still powerful groupings of supporters for other planes (why do think there's been so much noise about updated F18's recently).

You might want to read up how prescriptive the excercises are and just how many organisations and countries take part.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Red_Flag#Organization



...or buy more tin foil...
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How many of the participating countries are relying on the F-35?

Israel ... Yes
UK ... Yes
Aus ... Yes

Red Flag 17-1 only the USAF squadrons that participated were officially published.

No tin foil needed. There is a lot vested in this project. If POTUS did (he won't) cancel or curtail, it would push up costs for other countries or leave them with severe fighter shortages (Royal Navy being one classic example).

The results were certainly correct, but its a question of how it was set up that produced teh results.
 
buka001 said:
If POTUS did (he won't) cancel or curtail, it would push up costs for other countries or leave them with severe fighter shortages (Royal Navy being one classic example).
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The A and B are pretty safe, irrespective of POTUS attitude, the A is the new mainstay of the USAAF and there would be problems if it was even facing a reduction of numbers and the USMC would lose all FJ capability in a decade in the B was cut, not to mention that the new SECDEF would never allow the USMC to lose the capability.

The C is probably the only one with real issues, but I can't imaging the USN getting into the situation that the USMC is fielding a superior plane to them.
 
Dave123 said:
The A and B are pretty safe, irrespective of POTUS attitude, the A is the new mainstay of the USAAF and there would be problems if it was even facing a reduction of numbers and the USMC would lose all FJ capability in a decade in the B was cut, not to mention that the new SECDEF would never allow the USMC to lose the capability.

The C is probably the only one with real issues, but I can't imaging the USN getting into the situation that the USMC is fielding a superior plane to them.
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I agree with this. I know that the F-35 cannot be stopped.

It is a good plane. I am no fan, mainly because I believe this was the moment when the USAF, USMC and US Navy should have been pushing into a hybrid drone force of autonomous, semi-autonomous and piloted drones. Developing swarm technologies, hacker proofing them and so on.

F-35 is an opportunity missed.
 
Dave123 said:
And that's why unmanned will be the ultimate replacement and in 10 years when the A10 is eventually scrapped the tasks can be filled by a combination of drones/AH-64 and fast jets.

From the Afghanistan type conflict the AH64 is far more versatile and the odds of the massed tanks of the Red Army swarming into Europe are pretty low and that's really the only scenario the A10 is likely to be better at.

If it's not like Afghanistan, the A10 has issues...
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So you just replaced one CAS platform with 3 and in the process quadrupled the crew required, tripled the personnel being shot at and at the very least tripled the operating cost. Unless you are assuming there is only one of the three on station at a time and therefor fielding a third of the capability?

Currently the US airforce is considerinfg adding more aircraft in the CAS role and are looking at aircraft like the A-29 Super Tucano or OV-10 Broncos to do it.

The USAF Chief now wants to execute a fly-off of different off-the-shelf solutions for a light attack and surveillance aircraft to deem which one gives the best return for the USAF
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Source
 
buka001 said:
I agree with this. I know that the F-35 cannot be stopped.

It is a good plane. I am no fan, mainly because I believe this was the moment when the USAF, USMC and US Navy should have been pushing into a hybrid drone force of autonomous, semi-autonomous and piloted drones. Developing swarm technologies, hacker proofing them and so on.

F-35 is an opportunity missed.
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This though I not so hot on the drone only heavy systems because they can be exploited in creative ways.
 
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