The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

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epic, all sing along now :D:D:D

[video=youtube;b_5_KKvewSw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_5_KKvewSw[/video]
 
Quick calc with 10% per annum paid monthly for 20 years, ignoring operational cost and 100% compliance, the amount payable per month to pay off the debt is R396 000 000. Not the R250 000 000

Either they are not providing the correct number for their debt or the amount needed to keep eTolls running
 
creeper said:
Quick calc with 10% per annum paid monthly for 20 years, ignoring operational cost and 100% compliance, the amount payable per month to pay off the debt is R396 000 000. Not the R250 000 000

Either they are not providing the correct number for their debt or the amount needed to keep eTolls running
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It's the latter. They can't adjust their debt figures without renegotiating with creditors or actually making payment. My calcs look at their debt position until 2021, and there is quite simply no way that these numbers make any sense...
 
BTW, here is what Sanral need to charge on a monthly basis, based on compliance rates, in order to repay their debt:

1000000 R 726,92
1250000 R 581,54
1500000 R 484,61
1750000 R 415,38
2000000 R 363,46
2250000 R 323,08
2500000 R 290,77
2750000 R 264,33
3000000 R 242,31
 
Isn't it obvious that Sanral designed the 7-day-grace period, knowing very well that SAPO would be incapable of delivering invoices and freeway users would very unlikely be able to pick up the mail and pay within that period. As such the R100 exposure as DJ mentioned was misleading from the start and I think Sanral banked on most people buying the tag irrespective of their usage, they would have R450/pm and the "casual" users would pay a steep premium making up the shortfall.

It is then also very obvious, that Sanral would hike the monthly fee (I think they will probably have to do this very soon, since Moody's is waiting for another downgrade) with another BS-excuse. This system will thankfully not survive 2014 and will require a massive bailout by the middle of the year. I think they must burn cash in excess of at least 300m-400m per month (otherwise they would not have needed 5bn in the last 6 months)
 
Bear in mind that one of their HWAY bonds matured and they didn't have the cash to make good on the payments, hence the treasury cash injection. But a large portion of that was operational expenditure as well...
 
I think they have the wrong guy, have they asked the next head of the IPID where he was on that day?
 
Ok, so I've owned my car since end-2009, ownership was transferred to my name and I started receiving my license notifications (in my name) through the mail in Pretoria. This happened without fail until 2012 when I changed my postal address and I started receiving them (again without fail) in Boksburg.

I passed an eToll gantry on 06 Dec 2013 but I’ve yet to receive anything from SANRAL. No mail in Boksburg (where things are delivered), no mail in Pta (where things used to be delivered), no SMSes to my cell (where EMPD sends notices of speeding fines), no emails. Another week and it will have been 2 months of silence.

Now any kind of criminal proceedings (note that the proceedings are enough) would severely f*** up my life at work. So all I’m wondering is whether SANRAL can (nevermind will) start action against me if they didn’t delivery ANY kind of invoice?

Guess it’s just the paranoia talking, but until I get an invoice I’m not going to go beg anyone to tell me how much of my money they want.
 
CR34M3 said:
Ok, so I've owned my car since end-2009, ownership was transferred to my name and I started receiving my license notifications (in my name) through the mail in Pretoria. This happened without fail until 2012 when I changed my postal address and I started receiving them (again without fail) in Boksburg.

I passed an eToll gantry on 06 Dec 2013 but I’ve yet to receive anything from SANRAL. No mail in Boksburg (where things are delivered), no mail in Pta (where things used to be delivered), no SMSes to my cell (where EMPD sends notices of speeding fines), no emails. Another week and it will have been 2 months of silence.

Now any kind of criminal proceedings (note that the proceedings are enough) would severely f*** up my life at work. So all I’m wondering is whether SANRAL can (nevermind will) start action against me if they didn’t delivery ANY kind of invoice?

Guess it’s just the paranoia talking, but until I get an invoice I’m not going to go beg anyone to tell me how much of my money they want.
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SANRAL will say yes, logic will say now. The courts should rule on the side of logic, but their recent decisions have left a lot to be desired. So we will have to eagerly await the first round of law suits.
 
CR34M3 said:
Ok, so I've owned my car since end-2009, ownership was transferred to my name and I started receiving my license notifications (in my name) through the mail in Pretoria. This happened without fail until 2012 when I changed my postal address and I started receiving them (again without fail) in Boksburg.

I passed an eToll gantry on 06 Dec 2013 but I’ve yet to receive anything from SANRAL. No mail in Boksburg (where things are delivered), no mail in Pta (where things used to be delivered), no SMSes to my cell (where EMPD sends notices of speeding fines), no emails. Another week and it will have been 2 months of silence.

Now any kind of criminal proceedings (note that the proceedings are enough) would severely f*** up my life at work. So all I’m wondering is whether SANRAL can (nevermind will) start action against me if they didn’t delivery ANY kind of invoice?

Guess it’s just the paranoia talking, but until I get an invoice I’m not going to go beg anyone to tell me how much of my money they want.
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Raise a complaint with SARS as they have not issued you with a VAT invoice within 21 days of the service being rendered. :p
 
Sinbad said:
Raise a complaint with SARS as they have not issued you with a VAT invoice within 21 days of the service being rendered. :p
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While probably being the right thing to do, it just feels so much like begging them to make sure SANRAL takes my money. :D
 
CR34M3 said:
Ok, so I've owned my car since end-2009, ownership was transferred to my name and I started receiving my license notifications (in my name) through the mail in Pretoria. This happened without fail until 2012 when I changed my postal address and I started receiving them (again without fail) in Boksburg.

I passed an eToll gantry on 06 Dec 2013 but I’ve yet to receive anything from SANRAL. No mail in Boksburg (where things are delivered), no mail in Pta (where things used to be delivered), no SMSes to my cell (where EMPD sends notices of speeding fines), no emails. Another week and it will have been 2 months of silence.

Now any kind of criminal proceedings (note that the proceedings are enough) would severely f*** up my life at work. So all I’m wondering is whether SANRAL can (nevermind will) start action against me if they didn’t delivery ANY kind of invoice?

Guess it’s just the paranoia talking, but until I get an invoice I’m not going to go beg anyone to tell me how much of my money they want.
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Compton_effect said:
My niece just received her first invoice for R1400 for her Isuzu Bakkie.
She drives a Renault Clio and uses Gautrain every day...
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Here is exactly why prosecution will be difficult. If the first case proves that SANRALs data can not be used as evidence eg Isuzu bakkie but person owns a Clio, then it can be used over again (case law) in other defenses. Furthermore. If you can prove this you wanted to pay, but the systems were down, then intent of not wanting to pay is also out the window.

And the NPA isn't keen to take on cases if the evidence is weak or dodgy.
 
creeper said:
Here is exactly why prosecution will be difficult. If the first case proves that SANRALs data can not be used as evidence eg Isuzu bakkie but person owns a Clio, then it can be used over again (case law) in other defenses. Furthermore. If you can prove this you wanted to pay, but the systems were down, then intent of not wanting to pay is also out the window.

And the NPA isn't keen to take on cases if the evidence is weak or dodgy.
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Oh. She's not worried. She's a lawyer. :twisted:
 
CR34M3 said:
Hmmm, this might turn into an interesting development. Do you have a reference for this?
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I'm not a law specialist, but they might be breaking some Acts relating to document retention. Something like Promotion of Access to Information Act as an example
 
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