The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

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Tander said:
I think he is asking why haven't you shared your site with us - he had to use his "hacking skills" to find the site.
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I kept the page hidden because I didn't want SANRAL on my case. That was then, this is now, and now I really don't give a toss.
I am re-doing the page and the site anyhow.
 
CR34M3 said:
Regarding this, I’m also still a bit unsure about the whole invoice thing
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My understanding from what you posted....


(9) Any user of an e-road who, through such use, becomes liable to pay toll may request an invoice from the Agency at any e-toll customer centre, failing which the Agency shall not be obliged to provide invoices to any user, save as provided for elsewhere in these regulations.
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So all this is saying is that they are not required to send out an invoice unless it says so in any other part of the regulation... this takes us back to the point 6...

(6) The Agency may follow criminal and civil process to collect all outstanding tolls if, despite an invoice having been sent, the user continues to fail to pay such outstanding tolls within the period stipulated in the invoice or at all
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So they can take criminal and civil actions to collect but in their own words 'continues to fail to pay..... stipulated in the invoice'

So they are saying that they will take action if you refuse to pay the amount stipulated on the invoice. So if they send no invoice how can they then show that you refused to pay such stipulated amount in the invoice if you never received the invoice.

Also, point 9 states that they need not send an invoice unless otherwise stated. Well if I read point 6 I understand it that they will send you an invoice i.e. 'despite having been sent'.
 
MKFrost said:
My understanding from what you posted....




So all this is saying is that they are not required to send out an invoice unless it says so in any other part of the regulation... this takes us back to the point 6...



So they can take criminal and civil actions to collect but in their own words 'continues to fail to pay..... stipulated in the invoice'

So they are saying that they will take action if you refuse to pay the amount stipulated on the invoice. So if they send no invoice how can they then show that you refused to pay such stipulated amount in the invoice if you never received the invoice.

Also, point 9 states that they need not send an invoice unless otherwise stated. Well if I read point 6 I understand it that they will send you an invoice i.e. 'despite having been sent'.
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he Agency must within 32 days after the alternate user has used an e-road but after expiry of the grace period and unless the user has registered, send an invoice to the said user,
 
Bundu said:
he Agency must within 32 days after the alternate user has used an e-road but after expiry of the grace period and unless the user has registered, send an invoice to the said user,
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Thanks for that, have not read up on anything e-toll yet, was just replying to previous post. A question on this...

I know that they also need to send out fines within this time period otherwise its assumed that a reasonable person will no longer remember the details of the offence and will thus not be able to raise objections to it. To make it fair fines must thus be sent out within this time.

I guess this will not apply to SANRAL should they miss the 32 day period ? I do not see why it should if this is the case.
 
MKFrost said:
Thanks for that, have not read up on anything e-toll yet, was just replying to previous post. A question on this...

I know that they also need to send out fines within this time period otherwise its assumed that a reasonable person will no longer remember the details of the offence and will thus not be able to raise objections to it. To make it fair fines must thus be sent out within this time.

I guess this will not apply to SANRAL should they miss the 32 day period ? I do not see why it should if this is the case.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking that if they don't, they are in breach of the law - what the impact of that would be, I don't know....
 
Bundu said:
I'm thinking that if they don't, they are in breach of the law - what the impact of that would be, I don't know....
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Guess I'll leave my R10 toll, wait for an invoice and see.

Can anyone confirm whether the outstanding fees, as shown using their website and your VLN, stops showing after 7 days? (i.e. when your outstanding fee gets moved to the Violations Processing Centre)
 
I've calculated the after-tax impact that E-tolls will have for average Gauteng citizens. The following data was used:

Formal Sector Average Income = R14504 per month (source: http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-south-africa/etolls-to-consume-disposable-income--schssler)
Median Income = R11000 per month (source: http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-south-africa/etolls-to-consume-disposable-income--schssler)
Low Income = R8000 per month (source: basic in corporate environment - most likely to drive)
CPI: 6% looking forward
Taxation @ 2013 rates
E-Toll price increases calculated based on minimum increases required to repay their debt (source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mp4SQzrXJA)
Phase 1 costs calculated at current long-term debt based on bond issuances (source: http://www.nra.co.za/live/click.php...Annual_Report_13_LRES.pdf&o=Item+205&v=d9d629)
Phase 2 costs estimated based on 2008 pricing of work completed + financing costs + additional length of road (source: http://youtu.be/duM11XvTt7w)
Payment split of 83% paying less than R100, 10,10% paying between R100 and R200, and 1,82% paying between R200 and R300 per month (source: http://www.fin24.com/Savings/News/E-tolls-will-cost-only-R100-Sanral-20130807)

With this information, we can calculate the impact that E-Tolling will have on average to various classes of citizens in Gauteng based on income. The results are not a pretty sight to see. These percentages are pretty much equivalent to income tax increases...

Phase 1

Income_Impact_-_Phase_11.png


Phase 1 + Phase 2

Income_Impact_-_Phase_2.png


As is evident, E-Tolls, contrary to what Sanral have stated, are going to have a far greater impact on Gauteng residents than we are being led to believe. They are going to have a devastating impact, to be honest.

More than just that, the income gap between the rich and poor will widen, and this proves it once and for all. The poor will be hit the hardest by E-Tolls, as will low income earners. The gap will continue to get bigger and bigger, as can be seen very clearly.

Remember that if you pay for E-Tolls, Phase 2 of the project kicks in, all around JHB. As does Phase 3, which is estimated to cost far, far more than both of these 2 phases. The costs at this stage remain unknown. Once again, Sanral refuse to disclose them.

This is further reason why you should refuse, point blank, to pay your e-tolls. Unless you're happy for the above scenarios to play out...

I know that I'm not prepared to pay nearly 9% of my after tax income simply to drive to work and back. I know that low income earners won't be prepared to pay up to 15% of their after tax income just to drive to work and back. Paying for etolls now means that you give the go-ahead for this to take place...
 
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House said:
Lol :D lol... just reading through all the complaints about SANRAL on hellopeter.com....
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a lotta unhappines with Sanral on helopeter.... true though, extremely k@k website, and that not the least of it.

so, was wondering.... whats the deal with those neat looking (expensive) blue lights on the gantries, that we also have to pay for? why are they not switched on anymore? i figured they helped put extra/better lighting for the cameras?
they used to be on 24hours when the gantries were built, could see them from miles away, eventually, as the process wasnt going live for so long, they got turned off. now that the system is running, the lights still off? (at least the gantries on the Pta N1 i go passed)
 
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CeeBee said:
a lotta unhappines with Sanral on helopeter.... true though, extremely k@k website, and that not the least of it.

so, was wondering.... whats the deal with those neat looking (expensive) blue lights on the gantries, that we also have to pay for? why are they not switched on anymore? i figured they helped put extra/better lighting for the cameras?
they used to be on 24hours when the gantries were built, could see them from miles away, eventually, as the process wasnt going live for so long, they got turned off. now that the system is running, the lights still off? (at least the gantries on the Pta N1 i go passed)
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I believe they are only on at night now.
 
At some stage this morning the ability to check the toll amounts seems to have stopped working (putting the link in twice doesn't seem to work now, it did earlier), can someone please check and confirm?
 
Yeah.. seems to have been "unbroken" eventually. No more checking up random peoples accounts I guess:p
 
supersunbird said:
At some stage this morning the ability to check the toll amounts seems to have stopped working (putting the link in twice doesn't seem to work now, it did earlier), can someone please check and confirm?
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It is not working anymore. I have tried to re-enter it several times without success.

They really want us to register ....

:mad::mad::mad:
 
zaphod said:
It is not working anymore. I have tried to re-enter it several times without success.

They really want us to register ....

:mad::mad::mad:
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Was inevitable - the only way they could get people to agree to their T&Cs - you would be crazy to sign up and hand them your data on a silver platter...
 
I'm not really interested to see what I'm not gonna pay
 
supersunbird said:
E-tolls to consume disposable income – Schüssler:

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-south-africa/etolls-to-consume-disposable-income--schssler
Click to expand...

E-Tolls to consume disposable income - DJ...:D

DJ... said:
I've calculated the after-tax impact that E-tolls will have for average Gauteng citizens. The following data was used:

Formal Sector Average Income = R14504 per month (source: http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-south-africa/etolls-to-consume-disposable-income--schssler)
Median Income = R11000 per month (source: http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-south-africa/etolls-to-consume-disposable-income--schssler)
Low Income = R8000 per month (source: basic in corporate environment - most likely to drive)
CPI: 6% looking forward
Taxation @ 2013 rates
E-Toll price increases calculated based on minimum increases required to repay their debt (source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mp4SQzrXJA)
Phase 1 costs calculated at current long-term debt based on bond issuances (source: http://www.nra.co.za/live/click.php...Annual_Report_13_LRES.pdf&o=Item+205&v=d9d629)
Phase 2 costs estimated based on 2008 pricing of work completed + financing costs + additional length of road (source: http://youtu.be/duM11XvTt7w)
Payment split of 83% paying less than R100, 10,10% paying between R100 and R200, and 1,82% paying between R200 and R300 per month (source: http://www.fin24.com/Savings/News/E-tolls-will-cost-only-R100-Sanral-20130807)

With this information, we can calculate the impact that E-Tolling will have on average to various classes of citizens in Gauteng based on income. The results are not a pretty sight to see. These percentages are pretty much equivalent to income tax increases...

Phase 1

Income_Impact_-_Phase_11.png


Phase 1 + Phase 2

Income_Impact_-_Phase_2.png


As is evident, E-Tolls, contrary to what Sanral have stated, are going to have a far greater impact on Gauteng residents than we are being led to believe. They are going to have a devastating impact, to be honest.

More than just that, the income gap between the rich and poor will widen, and this proves it once and for all. The poor will be hit the hardest by E-Tolls, as will low income earners. The gap will continue to get bigger and bigger, as can be seen very clearly.

Remember that if you pay for E-Tolls, Phase 2 of the project kicks in, all around JHB. As does Phase 3, which is estimated to cost far, far more than both of these 2 phases. The costs at this stage remain unknown. Once again, Sanral refuse to disclose them.

This is further reason why you should refuse, point blank, to pay your e-tolls. Unless you're happy for the above scenarios to play out...

I know that I'm not prepared to pay nearly 9% of my after tax income simply to drive to work and back. I know that low income earners won't be prepared to pay up to 15% of their after tax income just to drive to work and back. Paying for etolls now means that you give the go-ahead for this to take place...
Click to expand...
 
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