The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sanral has directed motorists who wish to dispute amounts its Violations Processing Centre says are outstanding to its Representation process – a paperwork-heavy procedure requiring an affidavit and Commissioner of Oaths.
Click to expand...

Stuff that, SCAMRAL has deliberately wrapped up its disputes procedure in red tape to try and force people to pay without going through the arduous dispute prcoedure where SCAMRAL clearly considers anyone and everyone GUILTY until proven innocent.

I expect there will be a lot of people that insist on having their day in court, which is going to cost SCAMRAL a lot of money, especially in cloned numberplate and similar scenarios where SCAMRAL is clearly in the wrong, but too pigheaded to actually check its facts before blacklisting people and threatening them with criminal charges.

I foresee problems for the NPA as well if prosecutors don't spend lots of time weeding out the spurious cases where SCAMRAL has not bothered to check its facts: people being prosecuted under the Criminal Procedures Act will most likely lodge counter-cases for wrongful prosecution and reputational (Crimen Injuria) damages claims against the NPA and similar civil claims against SCAMRAL.

The FUD louse need not bother refuting my predictions, I don't bother reading its posts which keeps me sane.
 
So we all going to jail it seems. Those of us not paying, anyway. Fun times folks..
 
creeper said:
And if you wondered about the prosecutions, MoneyWeb has an interesting article: http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-south-africa/no-special-arrangements-for-etoll-trangressors--np
Click to expand...

It is quite simple - if you used the toll-roads and you have received an legitimate and correct invoice, then pay (without registering). If you did not receive an invoice or it is incorrect, then contest it and pay a portion of it. Keep a paper trail. If you land up being charged years from now, you will have paper-trail demonstrating that you exhausted all avenues to rectify a billing issue and did not get assistance. The court will throw it out. By the time you actually appear in court, Moodies would have downgraded Sanral to grading, where investor confidence would have diminished, forcing the state to bail Sanral out and close it down - I would expect this to happen towards the end of this year if people continue to question Sanral's processes.

If you look at the current justice system, you will not be hauled in front of a judge and prosecuted within days and then thrown into prison. Rapists and murderers go on bail for months and years - so I honestly would not sweat it. I think it is anyone's civic duty to fight this and not cave in - if you do, be prepared for the next big thing the government is going to push down your throat - complacency breeds failure!
 
It's even simpler than that, if you need to sign the T&C to pay then don't pay unless they are willing to accept a modified T&C after you have cancelled out all of the offending sections. If they then take you to court you can say that you tried to pay but they tried to force you to give up your rights and you weren't willing to do that. They would not accept payment otherwise.

If you have accepted their T&C then you deserve everything coming your way.
 
Interesting to see the, “I received e-toll invoice”, threads popping up. It is now the time to test the waters as I really cannot see SANRAL taking “mass” action.
 
Spam filter not working!

Look at this disgusting, horrible, vile, spam. In all my years this is the first spam that shocked me.


Capture.PNG

I especially like the part where the Toll Road Enforcement Unit will stop me!

In an age where you can't even trust the police and have to think twice before stopping for the police, now they expect you to stop for something else... and even if they stop you, what then? Are the Toll Road Enforcement Units going to arrest people?

Bah!
 
Last edited:
MagicDude4Eva said:
I think it is anyone's civic duty to fight this and not cave in - if you do, be prepared for the next big thing the government is going to push down your throat - complacency breeds failure!
Click to expand...

+1
Stop it now before the GFIP phase 2, the Winelands toll project, the National Health Insurance, etc. get shoved down our throats.
 
Paul_S said:
+1
Stop it now before the GFIP phase 2, the Winelands toll project, the National Health Insurance, etc. get shoved down our throats.
Click to expand...

I actually think that the NHI will be a good thing for the country. It will level the playing field across health-care, were private medical aids such as Discovery and healthcare professionals need to come to the party and make it work. In a sense it is almost like how internet access has become more accessible to the public (in the beginning of 2000, private internet access via dialup/ISDN was for a select few). I look forward to NHI as it will require mayor healthcare reform which in a short period of time can either completely break the existing healthcare system or completely rework it. The current private insurers will have a huge issue trying to offer a value-add if any regular Joe can pretty much get the similar service on a state medical aid - all of this will be interesting when it arrives.

I think the Capetonians should be worried about Sanral and as much confidence you might have in the DA, I do think that GFIP phase 1 was only possible due to the lack of opposition parties being interested or capable of understanding what it meant (after all, the toll concept was in tender documents and discussed in parliament, but never reached the public).
 
No way they'll start taking people to court. I've checked the basement at work and if 5% were tagged that is a lot.
 
MagicDude4Eva said:
I actually think that the NHI will be a good thing for the country. It will level the playing field across health-care, were private medical aids such as Discovery and healthcare professionals need to come to the party and make it work. In a sense it is almost like how internet access has become more accessible to the public (in the beginning of 2000, private internet access via dialup/ISDN was for a select few). I look forward to NHI as it will require mayor healthcare reform which in a short period of time can either completely break the existing healthcare system or completely rework it. The current private insurers will have a huge issue trying to offer a value-add if any regular Joe can pretty much get the similar service on a state medical aid - all of this will be interesting when it arrives.

I think the Capetonians should be worried about Sanral and as much confidence you might have in the DA, I do think that GFIP phase 1 was only possible due to the lack of opposition parties being interested or capable of understanding what it meant (after all, the toll concept was in tender documents and discussed in parliament, but never reached the public).
Click to expand...

NHI is good in principle. However, guaranteed the execution is going to be disastrous on a sanral-esque scale, resulting in NO-ONE in SA having world class healthcare.


As for SANRAL, I've lodged another ASA complaint. Hope they will entertain it as I haven't listed one particular ad, but rather their entire campaign.

In light of revelations in my previous complaint, it has become evident that SANRAL have no problem with presenting guesses, estimates and lies as fact.
The claims made in these advertisements and press releases are ambiguous if not disingenuous.
Given the context and products involved, the consumer can reasonably be expected to interpret it as "under 1% of eToll road users" will reach their cap, and similarly "over 83% of eToll road users" will pay under R100 per month.
The reality is that over 300,000 road users commute from Pretoria to JHB daily (figures retrieved from http://www.gautrain.co.za/about/about-gautrain/why-rapid-rail/) . Most of these will pass 6 gantries per day, which will cause them to reach their cap each month. Let's be generous and say that of these particular users, only 200k will reach the cap. From this we can conclude that the number of "road users" that SANRAL is referring to in this advert/info is at LEAST 20 million. (100 times 200000). Note that these calculations exclude traffic on the N3 south, the N1 south of the Buccleuch interchange, the N12, etc. Add those in and you'll get a lot more than 200k)

I believe the number of GAUTENG freeway users is around 2.5 million. Therefore, the reality is that more than 10% of gauteng freeway users will reach their cap, and less than 8% of freeway users will be billed less than R100. This is a very different picture to the one they are painting in all their PR. They have deliberately been ambiguous about the number of people affected by this in an attempt to make the impact seem lower.
Click to expand...
 
Cloudster said:
No way they'll start taking people to court. I've checked the basement at work and if 5% were tagged that is a lot.
Click to expand...

I'm also wondering about the etags. I do a spot check every morning at work as well as in traffic. The highest percentage to date was 25% of the vehicles. Unfortunately, a bigger and better (geographically) is required to determine a good estimate.
 
MagicDude4Eva said:
I actually think that the NHI will be a good thing for the country. It will level the playing field across health-care, were private medical aids such as Discovery and healthcare professionals need to come to the party and make it work. In a sense it is almost like how internet access has become more accessible to the public (in the beginning of 2000, private internet access via dialup/ISDN was for a select few). I look forward to NHI as it will require mayor healthcare reform which in a short period of time can either completely break the existing healthcare system or completely rework it. The current private insurers will have a huge issue trying to offer a value-add if any regular Joe can pretty much get the similar service on a state medical aid - all of this will be interesting when it arrives.
Click to expand...

NHI will never work, because the 5% of the taxpayers will each have to pay for 20 other people and then they will be exempted from NHI because they are capable of paying for private healthcare. So if you are happy to pay more tax than you already do in the form of the NHI and not get any benefit from it, then good for you. But I'm not. NHI requires a larger tax base.
 
SANRAL admits E-toll glitches

The SA National Roads Agency Limited (Sanral) admits some glitches have been experienced in the e-toll collection system, The Citizen reported on Friday.

Spokesman Vusi Mona told the newspaper there had been some "genuine" complaints about the system.

"There are genuine customer complaints. There is no system that is foolproof and 100 percent correct."

He said there were not a large number of such complaints, however, and those complaints lodged with consumer satisfaction website Hellopeter.com were being handled by Sanral's public relations department.

Mona said the agency had acquired motorists' cellphone numbers legally through the Electronic National Administration Traffic Information System (eNatis).

"We are not breaking any laws or violating people's privacy," he said.


Source : Sapa /mjs/ar/jk
Date : 10 Jan 2014 10:12
 
creeper said:
I'm also wondering about the etags. I do a spot check every morning at work as well as in traffic. The highest percentage to date was 25% of the vehicles. Unfortunately, a bigger and better (geographically) is required to determine a good estimate.
Click to expand...

Same here. 25%? I get on at Nasrec and off at William Nichol. I have never counted more than 10 tags in a drive. If the number is more than 10% - I'd be very surprised.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X